Bridging the Gap Between The SexesTo Make Love Work In The Modern World – with Dylan James Levitt

Dylan James Levitt is an author, a relationship coach and facilitator who is passionate about bridging the gap between the sexes to make love work in the modern world.

He’s also passionate about transforming the way we do education and one day plans to found his own university combining formal education, and self-education into one integrated curriculum.

Find Dylan!

Instagram: http://[email protected]

https://sparkcoaching.groovepages.com/sparkgroupcoaching/index

Find Dr. Tari online: http://www.drtarimack.com

Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/drtarimack.

Episode Transcript

Bridging the Gap Between The SexesTo Make Love Work In The Modern World - with Dylan James Levitt

Welcome to Dear Dater, the PodCast for people who want to change their disappointing relationship patterns and finally access the love they deserve. My name is Dr. Tari Mack, and I’m a psychologist and celebrity love coach. My journey has been one from disconnection and loneliness to love and miracles. And I want this podcast to give you the tools and awareness to help you create and access the love you want in your own life. What we yearn for is meant for us. So if you yearn for love, you’re meant to have it when we change; our relationships change. I’m so glad you’re here.

Dr. Tari: I am super excited to have Dylan James Levitt on our podcast today. Dylan is an author. A relationship coach and facilitator. Who’s passionate about bridging the gap between the sexes to make love work in the modern world. He’s also passionate about transforming the way we do education. And one day plans to found his own university combining formal education and self-education into one integrated curriculum. Wow. So much to unpack there. Welcome, Dylan.

Dylan: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, got to say, first off, I love the name. Dear Dater, that’s a great name.

Dr. Tari: Thank you. So, Dylan, you and I met in Clubhouse; I heard you speak in a few rooms, and the things that you said just really resonated with me. So I knew I had to get you on this PodCast. So thanks for being here.

Dylan: I really appreciate the invite. You’re welcome.

Dr. Tari: I wanna go back to your bio cause there were a couple things I wanted to unpack there a little bit. The first one being you said you’re passionate about bridging the gap between the sexes to make love work in the modern world. So tell me more about that. Bridging the gap between the sexes.

Dylan: This starts with a cliche that is really the opening to a comedy bit, but we’ll, we’ll start there, and it’s men, think women are crazy, women think men are assholes. And in between, we have a bunch of frustrated people who aren’t getting what they want in relationships.

Dr. Tari: Yes.

Dylan: And this is the dichotomy that we have when it comes to men and women and trying to understand each other. Just trying to understand each other. What is actually different about men’s and women’s brains from a neurological standpoint. And there are a number of things that are different. But all of those things that are different fall into 1% of our entire brain.

Dr. Tari: Wow. So, how do you explain to them this gap between men and women and these cliches that we kind of live out?

Dylan: There’s a lot of ways you can explain it. From an evolutionary standpoint, it comes down to the fact that. Inherently our interests when it comes to mating are different. Women have a drive towards security, towards stability, and towards long-term partnership because they have from the get-go a higher investment in any sort of sexual activity because of the fact that they carry the baby. And if the man can leave, it’s up to them to raise the baby; their level of inherent investment in any sexual intercourse is higher from the get-go.

So they value security. They value stability. They value someone who can provide resources, which is why they tend to value status and not even necessarily money, but men who are at the top of the status hierarchy in whatever social arena they’re in because those men tend to be able to have access to that greatest amount of resources.

And so for women’s safety is primary, is inherent, it goes down hundreds of thousands of years in women’s evolution to want a man who can make them feel safe. And for women, they’re like sex; when men and women have sex for the first time, that is when women’s investment. They’ve basically like they’re now fully invested, and when a guy has sex with a girl like that’s when it tends to start.

Dr. Tari: Oh my gosh.

Dylan: For the guys, right? Because it’s like the guy is just going and going and going until they have sex with the girl. And then it’s like, okay, now I’m going to consider a relationship. And, and whether I want that, but sex was primary. And for a woman, it’s like she’s assessing and assessing. And then decides, okay, you know what? Like this is safe, I can, risk, from an evolutionary standpoint. I can risk giving up my limited sexual resources for this man. And that’s when there like the relationship has gotten serious already at that point for most women and in the modern world, this is not necessarily the case, but speaking strictly from an evolutionary standpoint, it’s like, The moment of sex or of copulation, that is a moment when our interests inherently diverge.

Dr. Tari: Yeah. Okay. So how does this work? Because something that I always teach and talk about is pacing is so important, right? Like when we meet someone, and we’re super attracted, we feel all that chemistry if we have sex right away, we tend to burn out the connection because there’s not emotional connectivity that’s been built.
So you said when their sex, then the man is ready to invest or then the relationship starts, but also it can go the other way. Like it also happens when you have sex, and then it kind of doesn’t go anywhere. So how, so say more about that? Why does that happen?

Dylan: Why do men have sex with a girl and then have it not go anywhere?

Dr. Tari: Yeah.

Dylan: So, I’m going to speak strictly from an evolutionary science standpoint. So I can have science to back me up before I say controversial things. From an evolutionary standpoint, men’s primary evolutionary drive is to spread their genes to the next generation as much as possible. So from a numbers standpoint, the number of. The number of offspring in the next generation that have a given individual man’s genes, the more successful he is from an evolutionary standpoint.

So a man’s, this is before logic before rationality, before any of our modern morals come in, a man’s primary drive is driving him to want to have sex with as many women as possible because he wants to spread his genes to the most number of offspring as possible. That’s bare-bones, evolutionary programming,

Dr. Tari: Yes. Okay. But you said you want to, you want to bridge the gap and bring it into the modern world.

Dylan: Right.

Dr. Tari: So talk to us about the modern world,

Dylan: So a big part of this is understanding like I studied a ton about what the differences are between men and women, from an evolutionary standpoint, as well as from a neurological standpoint. And I’ll go back to the generalization. I said at the beginning; men think women are crazy. A woman’s reality on a day-to-day basis. Fluctuates 30% more than a man’s. Based on her hormonal fluctuations, the women have many more differences. And what their home hormones are doing on a day-to-day basis, even when they’re not on their period, which is why there’s, a woman could say one thing one day, and then another thing three days later, that totally contradicts that and to a man that’s what do you mean? We just had this conversation, like now you’re changing your mind. I don’t get it. And like, that’s a point of understanding. That’s one point of understanding where it’s like for women, if they’re in their feminine and we’ll get into masculine and feminine, later they’re if they’re in their feminine, they’re going to, their emotional reality is going to be up and down.

So just understand that and don’t necessarily believe that if she says something, it’s a firm statement about how she feels or what we’re talking about, how a woman feels regarding the relationship, regarding where you guys are at, regarding what she wants. Don’t necessarily take it as gospel. Check back in a couple of days later to see if she still feels that way and check back in a few days after that and see if she still feels that way, because they’re emotional and have compassion for when in a man’s view, a woman is being crazy and emotional and sporadic because like that’s a hormonal drive, just like a man can’t control when he sees a beautiful woman walking down the street, and he’s like, impulses to turn and look at that woman, like it’s the same impulses that women are feeling that have them be so emotional and so seemingly sporadic, so compassionate is in order.

Dr. Tari: Wow. So it sounds like you’re saying there are, like genetic, biological instinctual drives and differences in men and women, and really understanding that. Can maybe alleviate some confusion, some conflict.

Dylan: Yes, it can definitely alleviate confusion and conflict. And I think it helps put into context what’s happening in your relationship—understanding that women are driven to crave and seek security and stability and safety from a man from a relationship. That can put into context the times where she gets triggered because she doesn’t feel safe.

And for a man that’s like, we don’t even understand what she’s talking about, not feeling safe is just not a thing that we, for most men that we experienced in the way that women do. Because again, going back to evolution like women have evolved over hundreds of thousands of years to know that a man can physically overpower them and rate them at any moment.

Dr. Tari: Yes.

Dylan: And that is a whole different context and reality to be living in than being on the man’s side. And so, like, little things can really make a woman feel a little bit nervous or unsafe because of that. And that can put into context times when a man feels like, Oh my God, what is she freaking out about? Or what is going on here? I don’t get it; it’s like always think, back to safety and security and stability.

Dr. Tari: Wow.

Dylan: And ask yourself, how can I provide that for her in this moment and it may not be what she needs, in that moment but it’s a good bet

Dr. Tari: Okay, so

Dylan: Would you agree with that? I’m curious.

Dr. Tari: Yeah, I think that’s so right on; I think as women, what I teach women too, and what I’ve learned in my own life is to choose partners, and not all women date men. I want to say that, but whether you date men or women, like, to choose partners that are consistent, that are honest, that show up for you that are emotionally safe. It’s like the number one criteria. So I think you’re totally hitting the nail on the head. So do you work mostly with men? Do you work mostly with women or both?

Dylan: I work mostly with single men who are looking for a long-term committed partnership.

Dr. Tari: Okay, so what do men want? What is important to men?

Dylan: I’m going back to my generalization at the beginning.

Dr. Tari: Yeah, the asshole part.

Dylan: Yeah, women think men are assholes, and this has to do with the level of emotional expression and emotional intensity that most men have and express so like, for a lot of men, they tend to be more even kills, they tend to think in terms of information, in terms of logic and in terms of what makes the most sense. And that can really come off as cold, and it can come off as heartless, and it can come off as robotic because it’s like you’re just looking at the facts and making decisions based on the facts. But what about how you feel? And again this is a huge generalization because some men are much more emotional, but for a lot of time, men, even if they do feel something they’re not necessarily aware of it because we as men are taught vulnerability in showing emotions as weakness, and will have maybe made fun off, and will have maybe lower on the social total poll so to speak, so we’re taught in most cultures and most scenarios. I’ll say in western cultures, in most scenarios, men are taught that. So even if they do have emotions around something, they are taught not to show it. And that causes men most of the time to not be aware of what their emotions are. So when it comes to conversation and decision making and not negotiations but making compromises, a lot of times, men are just focused on what makes the most sense and what the information of the situation is, and when women ask them what they feel about it? They have about three words: good, bad, okay.

Dr. Tari: What do you, like, what do men think about when they meet somebody? What’s important to them when they meet a woman when they’re dating? Like for me, like I said, we want somebody who’s consistent and shows up and will be a good partner. What do you find with men?

Dylan: I can’t speak for all men because truly,

Dr. Tari: Why not? I’m kidding.

Dylan: Ego would love to; however, I’ve found in my work that it’s just so varied, it’s just so varied. So men from a base level of standpoint again going back to evolution here, what men care about is loyalty. Standpoint, it is, always been a question whether the offspring is his.

From an evolutionary standpoint, before we had paternity tests, which was 99.999 9% of evolutionary history, Men had a fundamental question of whether the offspring was his. And because of that, for men, loyalty is huge because they spent, back to our caveman days. They needed to know that if they were gonna invest resources and if they were gonna invest time, and if they were gonna raise an offspring, which was always a choice, much less than it is now for a man. Still, it’s a choice for a man, but now it is culturally stigmatized if they choose not to be in that. So going back again to thousands and thousands of years ago, the men who are at the top of higher hierarchy would have offspring with many different women and the men who are on the lower down of the status hierarchy that was like one or two of men with a social arena would have offspring with many different women. But 90 percent of men would not. 90% of men, were monogamous would settle down and, would, make, with one individual woman, but they never had any, they could never verify that offspring was there’s, and so that has implanted us with very keen stands towards loyalty and whether or not a woman is being loyal, so that’s one thing that men really definitely care about.

The other thing that I would say that most men really want and really care about is openness. And so what that, what I’ve found is that men are looking for a girl who’s open-minded, who’s open socially, like who is not a social butterfly, but wants to talk to people and wants to have conversation and is socially confident, because if goes back long ways, if we look back 60 years women with the minister’s social affairs in the house and man with the ministers providing for the resources and that, whatever drive, whatever biological piece that is? I think that’s still pretty present for a lot of men. Like they want a girl to help them expand their social world and nurturing and kindness and feeling needed. Those are three huge things as women have ascended in the world, which I’m a big fan of. I think the quality between the sexes is very important, and as women and feminism have ascended, a lot of women come from a fundamental standpoint of I don’t need a man. And that is inherently emasculating to a man. Because just like your drivers for safety and security and stability, when it comes to romance, men’s drive is for gathering resources and providing and protecting. And so when there’s that fundamental, I don’t need a man in my life. I don’t need you, attitude. It is inherently emasculating and pushes most men away.

Dr. Tari: Yeah, that’s so interesting in my book, I talked about, like, some of the common caricatures of women, that, and how that goes wrong and one of them is this over independent woman, just keeps everybody at arm’s length, won’t receive help, won’t ask for help, won’t let anybody in. I think it’s good to say it’s not that I need anyone. I’m okay on my own, but I’m open to love. I want to co-create something with someone, and it sounds like for men, they want to feel needed. They want to know what their role is. They want to be able to have a place in our lives and our internal lives and create a partnership. And so I do, I think in general, anytime, we’re putting our arm out and saying, I don’t need this. I don’t; I don’t want this. We’re not open to receiving or creating anything.

Dylan: Yeah. The word need is a tricky one.

Dr. Tari: Yeah.

Dylan: It’s been a little bit dragged through the mud, and from my perspective, if we’re creating a partnership, the reason we create partnerships is because we need two people. For whatever the partnership, the goal of the intention, whatever we want out of partnership, we need two people for it, or else it wouldn’t be called partnership.

Dr. Tari: That’s very true.

Dylan: And when we do have a partnership with somebody, there are things we need from that person. It’s not to say we will be devastated, and unhoo, or unholy if we don’t get those things, but in order for the partnership to work in order for the relationship to thrive in order for us to continue moving in the same direction on the same page, there are things I need from you. It goes both ways. There are things I need from you as the man and the woman, and to just be okay with that.

Dr. Tari: Yeah.

Dylan: It’s hard because it’s it’s trust

Dr. Tari: Yeah.

Dylan: And it’s being willing to get hurt, and it’s being willing to not have your needs met. We all have interpersonal needs and we look to different people to fill those in our lives. Sometimes it’s a partner; sometimes it’s a friend; sometimes it’s a family member; sometimes it’s a stranger. Strangers sometimes can give us a space that people we know don’t.

Dr. Tari: So true.

Dylan: And it’s okay to need someone in order for the partnership to work, not in order for you to be happy with yourself, but in order for this partnership to work, there are certain things I need from you.

Dr. Tari: Oh, I love that. I love that distinction. Not in order for me to be happy, but in order for this partnership, for this relationship to work. And there, I think you’re talking about this like, healthy middle ground of, what is it, interdependence? So it’s not co-dependence; that’s not independence. It’s like this rich, fertile soil of interdependence where we lean into each other; we trust each other, we open ourselves up to each other, we rely on each other

Dylan: It’s symbiotic.

Dr. Tari: And it can be scary to do that. Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s a hard thing for a lot of people. Like you said, it’s vulnerable to trust. And some of us have had experiences that make us want to close down or protect, defend, but I think it’s a good point that you’re making that really in order to be in a partnership, we need to be open to having needs and expressing those.

Dylan: Yeah, and feeling needed is one of the things that brings the greatest meaning in life; feeling needed, feeling like my, my contributions, my gifts, who I am is needed by somebody, it’s what makes us get up in the morning? It’s what drives Parenthood

Dr. Tari: Yeah.

Dylan: Because that’s pure dependence, but their child needs him feeling needed, brings us meaning. So when that’s taken out of a relationship, especially for the man, I can’t speak for women, but for myself, if I’m starting to feel like I’m not needed, like the person that you call when you just got the best news you’ve got all month, the person that you call when you got fired, and you just need somebody to comfort you. The person that you call when you know you, just, need to vent and let it all out, and you want somebody that’s just going to hold space.

Dr. Tari: yeah.

Dylan: That’s the sort of being needed and for a man being needed for safety, even if you don’t need a man for safety, like just to have the playful desire to let a man protect you because it’s in his evolutionary impulses that can make a lot of difference in a relationship.

Dr. Tari: Yeah, I love that. And I think one of the things you’re talking about is really both sides of the coin, giving and receiving. We need to have both of those in order to be able to show up fully. And some of us are really good at one and not so good at the other, like the receiving for some of us is the hard part, because there’s so much uncertainty and vulnerability, we can’t control how somebody’s going to respond to us. And if we open up a space for receiving or relying on somebody else, they could let us down, but we have to do it anyway.

Dylan: We choose to do it anyway

Dr. Tari: Yeah, such a good point. You mentioned earlier the masculine and the feminine, and I’ve heard these terms a lot recently. It’s not something that I know a ton about. So can you talk more about that and how it relates to relationships?

Dylan: Yes, I will talk more about that. I will bridge into that after I talk a little bit about historical contexts for romantic partnership.

Dr. Tari: Cool

Dylan: I think it’s important to have a context for the conversation about masculine and feminine. So if we go back and, by the way, totally parroting Esther Perel and what I’m about to say, because I love her. And she writes extremely eloquently and brilliantly about how marriage is different and how a partnership is different today than it was a hundred years ago, 200 years ago; what have you. If we go back four, 500 years ago, marriage was all about number one, assuring progeny. So knowing that like this child was the son or daughter of these two people, number two, securing land rights. We got married so that the land would pass down within the family. It was an arrangement, and it was mostly a practical arrangement. And that’s four or 500 years ago. And over time, the idea of love came into the picture, but, four or 500 years ago, like you didn’t marry for love, it didn’t matter if your marriages were arranged, you didn’t even have a choice. A lot of times, like this, is your wife, accept it or don’t, and you better accept it because if you don’t, you’re going to get ousted and exiled from the tribe.

Dr. Tari: Right.

Dylan: So that is the institution of marriage from a historical standpoint. And even going back to, if we go back to the fifties and sixties, marriage was more of a choice. It was more of a, it was more of like the idea of love, and romance and all of that was starting to become popularized. Even so, though, divorce was extremely taboo 50 years ago, 60 years ago, people rarely got divorced because again, that old piece, that traditional piece of the marriage is the, It’s the thing that’s assuring the family unit. It’s the thing that’s keeping the family unit in place. The man and the woman and partnership is keeping the family unit together. So that was valued above having your dream partner.

Dr. Tari: Happiness or peace.

Dylan: Yeah, exactly. And whether your sex life was still good and all these things that we put pressure on for relationships to have these days, it was understood that like that 60 years ago, men would have affairs. And a lot of times, women, the wives knew about it and was understood because it sec, the marriage wasn’t necessarily the place where sex was supposed to be like thriving and exciting and all of that for 30 years. And so the values that we attached to partnership to marriage were different even 50, 60 years ago. And the value of it being the centerpiece of the family unit was generally above the happiness of the relationship. An in extreme cases, that wasn’t the case, when her abused what have you, or women who just couldn’t take it anymore, they’re like, I don’t care what people think, I’m gonna get a divorce, and that was minus 10 percent of marriages, I don’t know the statistic but, so that 60 years ago. And then we transition. And by the way, as the Perel’s book state of affairs, the first two chapters of that book, three chapters of that book have an amazing longer, more in-depth, more eloquently said history of what I’m talking about wow, if people want to go back and check it out, I highly recommend it puts things in really helpful perspective. And as we migrate and evolve to, modern day, we’re now in this place where it’s the age of the self, the century of the self, and birth control comes into the picture. Women are given a whole new level of sexual freedom and power that they did not have pre-birth control, and women are given the ability to choose the role that they want to play in a relationship, the masculine role or the feminine role. Because in the fifties and sixties, very few women had a choice to be the provider. Very few women had the choice to play the masculine role in the relationship. And every relationship has a masculine role and a feminine role.

It can be played by two men by two women by one man by one woman. And my parents’ relationship. For example, my mom plays the masculine role. My dad plays the feminine role. So it is definitely not determined by your sexual, you know, the sex that you were born as. So the masculine role in a relationship is the provider. Is the decision maker. Is the leader, the person who is leading the conversation, who’s leading the direction of the relationship, who’s leading the family in a given direction, historically men would choose to move to a different location. And so the masculine role is the provider, the bastion of safety groundedness, centeredness. The man is the rock; think of the masculine role as the rock, the safe, calm, comfort, providing safety.

And the feminine is the nurturer. The feminine is the adventurer. The spontaneous free-flowing, the moment, and flowing, think of feminine as graceful flowing, think about dancing in tango, the man is the leader. He’s taking the initiative behind the rhythm, the tempo, the moves, and all of that. And the woman is just kind of flowing and going, like following his lead and going with it. And I don’t want to use dominant and submissive because those words have their own context, but that could be another way to think about it for people.

These are some of the main distinctions of the masculine and the feminine as energies. And the other important piece to say about it is that there are energies; think about the yin and the yang as a way of thinking about the masculine and the feminine and how they fold into each other.
And we all have our masculine side, and we all have our feminine side. And we all possess both masculine and feminine energies on a different place in the spectrum. And we each have a leading natural default energy that we use in the world. And the reason the modern world can be so cruel to women.

It can be cruel to men too. But speaking about how it can be cruel to women is. So many jobs are. They require a woman to animate her masculine energy, to be in control, to be powerful, to be the decision-maker, to, to be thinking about logic and information and analysis; it’s all masculine energy jobs. Feminine energy jobs would be like a nurse, a school teacher; the typical things that women go into there’s a reason because those require more feminine energy. And so many jobs, like there’s not so many jobs and in our world that are feminine in nature. So many women know that they need to animate their masculine side. And they might not think about it like that in their mind, but they wear a different cloak at work because they need to, and they want to come off as not womanly, not feminine—someone who can hang with the men, who’s given the same respect as the men. And so then they come home after a whole day of needing to clench their fists and stand up for themselves and speak their truth. And if a woman is, by nature, very feminine, that’s hard for her. It takes a lot of energy for her to do that.

And so she then comes home, and she’s in her masculine because she’s been there all day. She’s been in that mode all day. And so then she comes home to the man, and she’s analytical, she’s logical, she’s nit-picking like she’s still unconsciously performing the masculine role in a conversation. She’s interrupting the guy, maybe, in trying to lead the conversation in a different direction. And like that’s a masculine thing to do. It can be really hard for women to switch off and switch from their masculine, like the animation of their masculine energy, and to drop into the feminine, trusting, nurturing, safe energy.

Dr. Tari: So interesting. I’m over here trying to figure out what energy I lead with. Because I have tended to be an overfunctioner in my relationships, where I’m the one who’s the rock I lead the relationship. I do all the emotional connection work. I don’t know if that’s masculine, but then also I’m the nurturing, for I’m the giver. It’s no wonder I’m just completely drained.
Dylan: You may be trying to play both roles.

Dr. Tari: I think I am, and it’s, it doesn’t work. I feel like I give all my energy away, which is, where I’m at in my own journey is learning how, like right now, I’m not dating because I just want to give all that energy to myself.

Dylan: I love it.

Dr. Tari: But. Yeah, I’m just wondering how this applies to this idea of over-functioning because I think women do that a lot; where we get in there, we connect all the dots. We keep moving the relationship forward. We keep taking the emotional temperature. Is that feminine? Or is that masculine? I can’t figure it out. What do you think?

Dylan: It’s hard to put the finger on it. As setting the direction and moving things along from one stage to the next in a relationship as well as setting the direction that the relationship is headed in. That’s a masculine thing.

Dr. Tari: Okay

Dylan: Because the primary piece of the masculine energy is, it is, direction-oriented. It’s focused on an end goal, going back to Hunter-gatherer; the masculine is direction oriented. They’re focused on one thing, and this is why men can literally not hear a woman when she’s talking to him because the masculine is direction-oriented and singular focused.

Dr. Tari: Ah. Wow.

Dylan: That is like the two primary things for the masculine energy. And the two primary things for the feminine energy is, nurturing and graceful. Those are the words that I would use for it. And so as masculine, as someone who takes the masculine role in the relationship, perfect example right now, my parents are both retired in the middle of selling the house that I grew up in. And my dad was retired for two years before my mom was retired. She just retired this year from Delta. And my dad had taken no initiative in getting the house sold and hadn’t looked at properties, hadn’t hired a realtor, hadn’t done, really anything. Meanwhile, they’ve been knowing they want to sell this house for five years before my dad even retired.

My mom’s working almost full-time, so she doesn’t have time for it. And as soon as she retires. My mom, her new job, her new day-to-day is she’s driving the direction. She’s looking at places. She is hiring a realtor, she’s making decisions, she’s calling people, she is the driver of that direction and of that decision, and my dad and she’s making lists for my dad, do this.

And so that is all masculine as in nature, as an activity. My mom has a lot of masculine energy. She feels safe there; she feels at home there; that’s her happy spot. She complains that she has to do it because she would like for a man who would do that for her, so she doesn’t have to be the one taking the whole initiative. Sorry to talk so much about your mom. But if you listen to this, I love you.

And so, That’s the tough dynamic to manage in a relationship, is for a woman. Women, by the way, tend to be able to shift energies a little bit more fluidly than men. So for women, they want a guy who’s going to take initiative. They want a guy who’s going to plan things. Who’s going to lead things where they don’t always have to be figuring things out and determining the logistics and all of that. Because the feminine, just wants to relax, to be free, and to just trust that the masculine has it handled so that they can relax into that open flowing, fun, spontaneous, feminine place.

Dr. Tari: Yes, and I think. Oh Gosh. But in order for, let say, women who may be more in the feminine, I know it isn’t always that way, but if that’s what we really want, if we want a man who’s going to take charge and plan, then we have to allow that to happen.

Dylan: Exactly

Dr. Tari: And so I think for a lot of us, based on our own rules on childhood, based on our own beliefs unconscious, unconscious if we just step in and do all the work, we don’t create that space for the man to take care of us and to plan and to protect and make things happen. Like I always say, a dynamic is always co-created by the two people in the relationship. So I think that’s so important if you’re feeling like your partner isn’t doing what you’d like for him to be doing, maybe look at yourself. Are you asking for that? Are you creating space for that? How are you asking for that? How are you showing up? Yeah.

Dylan: Yeah. And how are you with your guy when something is off when something isn’t the way you want it to be when he plans a date, and he doesn’t tell you to wear the right outfit? It’s cold, and you don’t have your jacket, or some little thing is off? A lot of times, it can be easy for the feminine to bring attention to how she would have done it.

Like a valentine’s day experience, this is also amazing, but I like lily’s, not roses or whatever it is. It’s like, there’s like some things that are off and in an experience, in a romantic experience, the things that are sensual, meaning the five senses, how things look, how things taste, how things smell, how things feel from a physical touch standpoint, and the sound, the ambiance that is all something women, the feminine tends to be much more aware of.

Like women can walk into a room and feel the energy of the room, feel how things flow, feel the functional. Again, these are a lot of generalizations, but that is the feminine aspect. My brother and my dad who, very masculine. My dad plays the feminine role in their relationship but, in terms of how they think it’s like their guys. And so like my brother and my dad, they couldn’t feel the energy of the room it feel so obvious they’re just thinking about information, and as man, it’s so important to understand that women tend to be far more sensitive to the environment in general, how things look, how things feel, how things taste, how they sound. And if there are environmental distractions that can really get in the way of a, of a great romantic expense,

Dr. Tari: Oh, wow. Interesting.

Dylan: Ahmm, for a woman, it’s so important to understand that your man will not always get things. He will make mistakes. And trying to please you. For many men, we really just want to please the woman; we want her to be happy. We don’t want her to be in a funky mood and emotional. That’s why we don’t say certain things that are true and that we believe because we know you’re going to react to it. So we would just rather keep things status quo and not hurt your feelings, which can become a problem if it’s done too much.

Dr. Tari: Right.

Dylan: But for the women, understand men are really trying to not hurt your feelings. And they’re really trying their best to give you what you want and understand what you want cause it’s hard. And for most women, they even understand what they want changes so much. Like they could barely grasp it, how could another person. And so a little bit of kindness, a little bit of grace, a little bit of understanding that if you do choose to surrender into the feminine. And it is a, surrendering, it is a, trusting, it is a relaxing back into the experience and not knowing what’s gonna happen, which is inherently scary. And it’s inherently probably what your heart really wants if you’re feminine in nature. So if you choose to do that, don’t let the little things become a big deal. And understand that your man might get things that are off and a gentle nudge or a gentle reminder is fine, but understand he’s doing his best.

Dr. Tari: And I think that’s just so important in general, right? For couples to give each other the benefit of the doubt to be honest, but always be kind at the same time, like to always come from a place of love. And I don’t think it’s something we’re taught how to communicate like this consciously, where we own our feelings, we express ourselves honestly, but kindly we don’t criticize, we don’t blame. We don’t accuse.

Dylan: We’re actively taught the opposite.

Dr. Tari: Yeah.

Dylan: If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.

Dr. Tari: And even that word, nice. Like it’s our job to be nice and not to offend anyone, but really I believe our job is to show up and be honest at the same time being kind and aligning with who we are and speaking our truth.

Dylan: Exactly, it’s the only way anything will get done. And we’re gonna offend people.

Dr. Tari: Yeah.

Dylan: Your emotions will be hurt. That is okay.

Dr. Tari: Yeah, you will disappoint, you will offend, you will anger people. That’s, it’s all okay.

Dylan: And when we love each other, we hurt each other.

Dr. Tari: Yeah.

Dylan: No relationship is without pain, no long-term relationship. There’s no long-term relationship where each of those people have not been hurt or let down by the other at some point.

Dr. Tari: Right.

Dylan: We unintentionally, unconsciously hurt each other because we go in with different expectations about what love is supposed to be like and feel like.

Dr. Tari: Do you think there’s a difference between the sexes in terms of expectations?

Dylan: Yeah, but I don’t think sex and gender that deciders or the drivers of what our expectations are primary drivers our parents hold that card.

Dr. Tari: Yeah. I agree.

Dylan: The people who loved us first, we’ll set the infrastructure mentally for how we expect to be loved, how we expect to be treated, all of it.

Dr. Tari: Even if it’s not healthy, even if it’s not really what love is or how we really wanna feel. We carry those templates into adulthood, and then we become conscious of them, and then we can change them—one other question about the masculine and feminine. So do you, as somebody who knows this world, I feel like this topic, it can be somewhat controversial. Are you proposing that a relationship works best when the man is in the masculine, and the woman is in the feminine?

Dylan: No.

Dr. Tari: Okay, can you clarify that?

Dylan: Okay. Yes. By the way, love controversy, love controversy. No problem with controversial territory here.

Dr. Tari: Bring it on.

Dylan: Going back to it’s honest, it’s important that we’re honest. So a relationship works best when two people understand what their natural role that they want to play is. Meaning I feel at home in my feminine, or I feel at home in my masculine. A lot of guys are trying to play the masculine role when at heart they’re feminine in their primary mode of being, and that has them try to be more manly, sound like a man, be like a man, talk like a man, not feel like a man. And I’m proposing that a relationship works best. Number one, when two people understand whether they’re primarily masculine or primarily feminine, where they fall on that spectrum. David Data has great information and workshops about this. He wrote the book of how the way of the superior man, very famous author in the field of relationships, look under his stuff he does a great job of describing these dynamics, so number yes, two people understand each roles

Number two, both people being able to shift roles. And my last relationship, this was a great example because we’re both very much into the work and the self-work and understanding when the masculine and the feminine were being animated and which roles were, which, and we danced so fluidly between the masculine and the feminine. She had lots of ideas for things she wanted to do. In a day she wanted to plan, and I was happy to say surprise me. And that’s again, it’s not like man and woman, but it’s a feminine thing to just say plan the day, surprise me.

Dr. Tari: Yeah, let go of control.

Dylan: Exactly.

Dr. Tari: Just surrender to it.

Dylan: Surrendering. Whichever party is surrendering, they’re surrendering into the feminine. And so if your partner is staunchly committed to something, whether it’s an idea or whether it’s the next step you guys want to take, or whether it’s an argument and she wants to be right, and, she will not stop until she’s right. As a man, it’s important to understand okay; she’s in her masculine mode of being right now, to fight her in my masculine is just gonna create more conflict. The real way is because this is all about polarity; this is about two energies that inherently go together, like the yin and the yang. And so if your partner is in her masculine and let’s say she’s a lawyer and she’s great at it, but she comes home, and she’s like in fucking lawyer mode and try to lawyer you, and you’re just like. Ah, I’m not winning this one, like surrender. Okay. You’re right.

Dr. Tari: Hmm, let it go.

Dylan: Let it go. And it’s so hard to do, man or woman. It doesn’t matter what your gender sex is. It’s hard to let shit go cause we want to be right.

Dr. Tari: Yep. So what role does this emotional expression play in the masculine and feminine, or does it? Is emotional expression assigned to one more than the other?

Dylan: I wouldn’t use that as a criteria to determine what you’re masculine, whether you, from, more on the masculine or the feminine side, because it’s blurry, it’s blurry. There can be men who are very emotional, like Steve Jobs is a great example. Steve Jobs was incredibly emotional, also very masculine. And so he just didn’t hold back. All his emotions were unfold-display for everyone no matter how, no matter what it was. So that’s not really about men or women. There’s a link—the daily group.com/energy-quiz. For people who are listening, if you want to go and take a little test, this one’s pretty good. There’s a lot of people, have different quizzes to determine your masculine and feminine. But I read through this one before our PodCast and like to give you a taste of the questions on your way to work. You mentally review your goals for the day in your mind and plan out how you’re going to get it all done. Yes or No?

Dr. Tari: Oh, hell no.

Dylan: On the way to work, you check in with yourself about how you were feeling and get an intuitive sense of how you’re going to work best today. Yes or no?

Dr. Tari: Yes, totally

Dylan: Okay, so that’s feminine; as you probably read as you’re in the midst of your workday or a particular project, you focus on your to-do list and take the next steps right away to keep up your momentum. Yes or no?

Dr. Tari: Doubt it.

Dylan: As you own the midst of your workday or a particular project, you reflect on the big picture, into it, what the project will need next, and feel, trusting, that it will come together. Yes or no?

Dr. Tari: Totally that yes. Okay.

Dylan: Feminine again, and so they don’t tell you on this quiz, like which one is masculine and which one is feminine. That’s me telling you.

Dr. Tari: Yeah, the expert on the line here.

Dylan: It can be fun, and it can be very revealing too, to see, Oh, I’m a masculine in these ways, and I’m feminine in these ways. And wait, I’m going back to our screen here. So, I’m like 50-50. I think that one of the reasons I’m a great relationship coach is because I’m very close to 50-50.

Like I have a strong feminine side to me. And if you look at my apartment, you guys can’t see, on the PodCast, but it’s very feminine. I have flowers; I have crystals, everything is neat, everything is ordered. Like I totally tapped into my feminine and was in my feminine as I was designing this place as I was buying furniture, it’s like a little girl in a furniture store.

It gives us power to be able to tap into the energies that will serve us for the task, like in designing this place. It worked for me to be in my feminine, and I loved it. I love designing it. So when we understand ourselves and when we understand that we can tap into both sides, it gives us a whole new level of power.

Dr. Tari: Yeah. That idea of self-understanding, like, even this, is just such a new lens for me to think about relationships. But it is that self-understanding, so even knowing, and now I’m going to go take that quiz. Like where I fall, my guess is I’m more feminine, but I think I probably do have some masculine as well, but it’s not so much about being feminine or being masculine. It’s about owning what you are and then also being able to be flexible. That’s what really stood out for me is when you recognize your partner in one state that you can take on the other role sometimes. And it’s that flexibility that’s so important.

Dylan: Yeah, you can meet them with the opposite.

Dr. Tari: Yeah. Oh, I love that.

Dylan: Meet them with the opposite. If your partner is in an aggressive mode, like to be, to maintain soft kind, nurturing energy is hard as fuck. Excuse my French, but it will diffuse most of the time.

Dr. Tari: Not to say, we should put up with partners who are constantly aggressive, but,

Dylan: No, not constantly, but my mom, for example, is a very aggressive person, not in an attacking way, but like she’s strong and she’s loud. Like she takes up a lot of space in the conversation. And to try to meet her with that strong, loud energy is just, you’re fighting for the same, you’re fighting for control. And if we fight for control, then that’s a sign; if you feel yourself fighting for control, it’s a sign, time to shift.

Dr. Tari: Yes. I love that. And probably also, if you feel in your relationship, there is not that flexibility on your partners. And if you’re always having to be the one that’s surrendering or letting go of control, you don’t get to have the voice. That’s probably an issue that needs to be communicated about.

Dylan: Yes, absolutely. And it tends to be one person, tends to submit and comply with the other person’s wants and needs. And sometimes it’s the man doing it to the woman, and sometimes it’s the woman doing it to the man. But if you’re the one submitting and complying all the time, you are definitely playing the feminine role. And if you’re the one wanting your partner to submit to you and comply with what you want in all aspects of life, you’re definitely playing the masculine role.

Dr. Tari: And would you say that dynamic is okay? As long as both people are, like feeling happy, or would you say that it needs to be more balanced?

Dylan: As long as there’s clear communication around it, I would say meaning submitted with submitting and compliance. This is how it’s going to be; whether you’d like it or not, that’s not healthy. I’m thinking of a good example; let’s say two people are in a new relationship. You’re in a relationship with somebody, you both are looking for jobs. And you get two different jobs in two different cities. Which, and I think a lot of people may be in this place, where one person wants to go, for one city for this job and another person wants to go for, different city for this job if you are, as the man or the woman setting an ultimatum. Like, I’m going here to take this job no matter what, you can come with me or not. That leaves no space for a conversation.

Dr. Tari: Right.

Dylan: So, as long as there’s a conversation being had and one person is saying, I will accept this because I love you, I will do this for us, not because I’m submitting to you and because I’m giving you like my power like I’m giving you the way doing this for us I accept this because I love you.

Dr. Tari: Right. Love that. So I have learned a lot today about the evolutionary differences and the sexes and the masculine and the feminine, it’s definitely gives me a new awareness. And I love that when that happens, when I get a new lens with which to see my relationships and to help other people see their relationships. So thank you so much, Dylan.

Dylan: You’re so welcome. You’re so welcome. And for anyone who’s interested in evolution David Buss has a great book called The Evolution Of Desire. That explains much more in-depth eloquently than I did today about what the real studied scientific, verified differences are from an evolutionary standpoint, so I just wanna drop in there because he’s published over a hundred scientific papers and that book is excellent.

Dr. Tari: Awesome. So if people wanna find you, if they wanna hire you as a coach or find out more about you, where can we find you?

Dylan: Yes. My website is Dylan James.com.

Dr. Tari: And who are you on Instagram? What’s your handle?

Dylan: coachdylanjames on Instagram. I put out tons of free content on Instagram, and you can DM me. I do free consultation calls to meet people where they’re at.

Dr. Tari: Awesome. I’ve heard from people on Clubhouse that you’ve really helped. You have a very loyal client base, so I can imagine you do awesome work.

Dylan: Thank you so much. Yeah. I’m grateful to do the work that I do. I love it so much. And I’ll leave people with, be a walking invitation for connection. Everybody is fighting an internal battle that we know nothing about, and everybody is hungry for connection. There’s no replacement for it, and everybody’s hungry for it. If you have the courage to take the first step, you will find that your life is a much more connected one.

Dr. Tari: Amen. Thank you so much, Dylan.

Dr. Tari: Thanks for tuning into Dear Dater. This is Dr. Tari, reminding you that if you want love, that’s meant for you.