DATING AFTER DIVORCE – WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW – With Daniel Herrold
Dr. Tari and Divorced Over 40 Co-Founder, Daniel Herrold discuss the do’s and dont’s of of dating after divorce and what you need to know!
Daniel Herrold is a divorced dad of three daughters living in Tulsa, Oklahoma. He is one of the co-founders of Divorced Over 40, a recently formed group that provides community to divorced men and women across the world who are in their forties, fifties, and sixties.
The DO40 community provides support through content on its social media channels, as well as hosts events with a specific intention of fostering and cultivating friendships. With over 10,000 strong virtually tribes have been formed in over 50 cities, across seven countries. Worldwide. The divorced over 40 community has enabled Daniel to pursue his passion for writing, where he writes on a number of topics, including his own personal divorce journey dating and being a dad to three daughters.
Find Daniel Herrold and Divorced Over 40 online:
Divorced Over 40 – Divorced Community, Friendships, Blog
Divorced Dad (@daniel.herrold) • Instagram photos and videos
Divorced Over Forty (@divorcedover40) • Instagram photos and videos
Find Dr. Tari online:
Get a Relationship Reading and discover your blind spots in dating:
Relationship Reading – Dr. Tari Mack (drtarimack.com)
Join Dr. Tari’s Next Level Love:
Next Level Love – Dr. Tari Mack (drtarimack.com)
DATING AFTER DIVORCE - WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW - With Daniel Herrold
Dr. Tari : I’m so excited today to welcome my friend, Daniel Herrold to Dear Dater. Daniel is a divorced dad of three daughters living in Tulsa, Oklahoma. He is one of the co-founders of Divorced over 40, a recently formed group that provides community to divorced men and women across the world who are in their forties, fifties, and sixties. The community provides support through content on its social media channels, as well as hosts events with a specific intention of fostering and cultivating friendships. With over 10,000 strong virtually tribes have been formed in over 50 cities, across seven countries. Worldwide. The Divorced over 40 community has enabled Daniel to pursue his passion for writing, where he writes on a number of topics, including his own personal divorce journey, dating, and being a dad to three daughters. Welcome Daniel.
Daniel Herrold: Hi, Dr. Tari, how are you? Finally, we talked, we talk on your podcast. I’m honored.
Dr. Tari : Finally. Yes, we’ve had to reschedule a few times, but today is the day it was supposed to happen.
Daniel Herrold: You’re so busy, getting all these big interviews with the rich and famous that I’m glad that I could squeeze it in.
Dr. Tari : You have created this amazing global network of people who have been through divorce or are going through divorce and allowed them to find really a support system, which is just one of the coolest things, because I think people really need that, after they get out of a marriage, So tell us a little bit about, I want to know about your own journey before we get, even to the divorce over 40 stuff.
Daniel Herrold: okay. All right,
Dr. Tari : Tell us about you.
Daniel Herrold: I’ll start there. So I am a native born and raised in Tulsa and my ex wife graduated from the same high school as I did, in the same class. We were in different social circles. She would have told you that she was in the popular group and I was in the nerdy group, but nonetheless, I caught her attention literally the summer after we graduated from high school, we started dating and then we both parted ways for college. I went to a different school than she did, and we continued today pretty much throughout our entire four years in college. And. I think that right wrong or indifferent, the culture down here, as, you marry quick, you have kids quick and start your family. And I think that was always her dream. I think for me, I was as a typical guy, we don’t really think about those things. We just go with the flow. We got married the summer after we graduated from college. So I was, 22 going on 23. Which kind of makes it makes me laugh in hindsight thinking, oh my gosh what was I thinking? Getting married, my brain wasn’t even developed at that point, Dr. Tari, I mean, how could I even make a decision like that? But nonetheless, we got married and two years into our marriage, we had our first child, she’s now 22 and we had two additional kids. Back to back. So we have had three girls before I was 30 years old and it was just busy raising kids. You know the drill, you’re just, you feel like you’re exhausted all the time with, I was ramping up my career. She made a decision to stay home and keep the kids and be the homemaker. And I had the career and, we were just busy for pretty much all of our marriage. And I it w I would say that I’ve told people that we kinda were the standard kind of, we drifted, we, weren’t very intentional and investing in each other, like we should have, and it just created a riff that we just couldn’t bridge at the end of the day. And so we had a fairly amicable divorce about two and a half years ago, went through that process. And came out of the divorce with no dating experience because I literally had never dated before, other than my ex-wife.
Dr. Tari : Oh, my God.
Daniel Herrold: and, learning the whole, a whole new set of skill sets of living alone and being autonomous for the first time in my life. Because if you think about it, for the first 18, 19 years, I was under the umbrella of my parents. Going to school and college. And then as soon as I get out of college, I have a partner. And so being independent and solo was exciting, but I’ll also, it was a big learning curve as well.
Dr. Tari : Yeah. Oh my gosh. When you decided to get the divorce and you’re going through that process, were you excited? Were you nervous? Were you both, how did you feel about dating?
Daniel Herrold: I would say that the divorce, even though we were, it was amicable, I went through and it was probably a smooth of a divorces. You can describe based on the stories that you hear. But it was still very painful for all of us, including our kids. You know, whether it’s a toxic, divorce or whether it’s smooth, you still deal with the same emotions. And I dealt with those and, to some group degrees still deal with some of them, whether it’s guilt, shame, obviously loneliness when you go through all those range of emotions. There are a lot of things that I did right , and there’s probably more things that I did wrong coming out of the divorce. I think what I probably did wrong while I won’t say probably Dr. Tari or what I know I did wrong as I jumped into dating too soon, started dating when we were actually separated. We had talked through this and gave each other permission and I started dating because I was lonely and I was looking for, I needed connection and I yearned for connection. And so I went into a committed relationship right out of the gate before I was even the divorce was finalized. And of course that ended up being a crash and burn. So there’s a lot that I learned about dating and trying to navigate kind of being alone and going through that healing process that some of it in reflection two and a half years later on. I could have done a lot better, that’s kind of part of the process too, is figuring all that out.
Dr. Tari : Yeah. I wouldn’t even say you did it wrong. I think a lot of people do that. I did that myself. My divorce experience was different. I felt free for my own reasons, but I jumped into a relationship as well. Didn’t work out, that hardly ever works, but you know, I think you have to go through that.
Daniel Herrold: Yeah, I think
Dr. Tari : And I think,
Daniel Herrold: the girl that I actually first went out with, she just got married two weeks. And so I’m actually, I was really excited for her cause that was her dream. She was a younger woman, so that adds to the compounding issues is that she was much younger. She wanted kids and a family she’d ever been married and she found the guy that was her age and, they’ll start a family and she’s getting. She got married for the first time. So I’m excited. But she was able to experience that, but I learned quickly through that. And to your point, a lot of times that first one is really just a, it’s either trying to numb pain that you’re going through. Or just be the great distractor, because you’re just yearning for some sort of connection, because 22 years, you’re living with some, kids and noise and you come home and people are there. That doesn’t mean that you’d necessarily engage with them all the time, but they’re there. And then you move into an environment where, my case, my kids didn’t stay with me. We did that by choice to let them have just one bedroom w at their mom’s house. And so I’m by myself all the time. And so you get lonely really quickly, and I chose the dating route to kind of fill that void.
Dr. Tari : Yeah. Which I guess is a nice segue to how Divorced over 40 came to be. So talk about that a little bit. So you separated, you started dating, how does Divorced over 40…
Daniel Herrold: Divorce over 40 started about 18 months after my divorce. So between the point in which the divorce occurred in 18 months, I would say that I was a serial dater. And I was really focusing on rebuilding my career because the stress of the divorce had really and it forced me to almost start over in my career. I got my eye off the ball and my business, and it really was struggling. So I’ve, I have spent and continue to spend a lot of time pouring into my career. And I traveled a lot with my work and I dated a lot. And I went through a bunch, a couple of crash and burns initially. And COVID hits. So my travel stops. So that means dating stops and I’m sitting there going, Okay. What have I gained in all of this? My business is kinda on the up, personally speaking, I don’t have a significant other, I didn’t really want one at the time and, but I don’t have any friends. And I had zero friends. And it’s because I hadn’t chosen to invest in cultivating and building friendships throughout my marriage and even right after my divorce. And so I recognize the need of that, because dating kind of ebbs and flows and people come in and out of your life, and I felt like friendships would enable me to have more long lasting relationships and people that could keep me busy and I could be social and so forth.
And there was a guy at my work is about my age is a little bit older that had just gotten divorced and we started hanging out a lot. We’d go have drinks and I’d hang out at his house. And we decided to start having cookouts at his bachelor pad and every Thursday night. And he loved to grill and smoke and do all that. And and he was a lot more social than I was. So he invited his circle of friends and we had 10, 15 people show up. All of them were divorced. All of them in their late thirties, forties, fifties, and we all had so much fun that we just kept doing it every Thursday. It was like a standing cookout all throughout last summer. It was a different group every time. Those people would invite a whole new set of people. And so my circle of friendships was really widening. But I did cultivate like this really tight knit group of friends. And we were inseparable. There were six of us, four women, two guys purely platonic, all of us divorced in our forties and early fifties. And we were inseparable. We went to breakfast, coffees, drinks, dinner. Everything together, we had this big group chat. This real tight-knit group. People would make fun of us saying we’re like the Friends of this generation. You’re always together You’re posting all these pictures. And one of us, I can’t remember who said let’s document it on Instagram. And and so we created divorced over 40 and Instagram account, really with the intention of just self-deprecating our lives after 40 being divorced and created this account and we’ve started with posts about our divorce. So we were very vulnerable. Real open and it completely, I mean the feedback that we got was unbelievable. Just a lot of divorced people, whether we knew them or not reaching out to us saying, oh my gosh, I went through the exact same thing. Thank you so much for being vulnerable and being open. People, don’t like to talk about their divorces. And it was like that light bulb went off where we realized, Okay. maybe we’re onto something. That’s a lot bigger than just making fun of ourselves. And that led. So what originally was supposed to be fun and it turned into something that was very content driven, sharing life, sharing stories to then we started to get people that would say, can we come to your cookout? Can we come hang out with you? And we didn’t know him. We decided to put together a happy hour in Tulsa, in a public setting. And we had 15 people there. Nobody knew a soul. Everybody came, both men and women, and it was so much fun meeting all these people that were brave enough just to walk in a door and be willing to meet a bunch of strangers. So we decided to do it again. The next time we had 25, the next time we had 50. The next time we had 75. And so it just started to really grow. And we started to have people from Oklahoma City, which is about two hours away drive to Tulsa to go to a happy hour. And we were like, why are you doing that? Because they’re like, because these are our people. And so that was the, where we were like, Okay. We can copy and paste. We can replicate this in other cities and show people that might be willing to step up into a leadership role and show them how we did it. How did we create this kind of tribe of divorced men and women where we cultivated friendships? It’s not dating driven. We really were very explicit that this is not a group intended to. To find your mate or to ask people out, but it’s really to come to a safe place where everybody’s been in the exact same boat as you’ve been through, and the ability to cultivate friendships with those people. And that’s how it took off.
Dr. Tari : Wow. It’s so incredible because you and I have talked about this on clubhouse before. After we go through a divorce or a separation, we still have friends hopefully, but we don’t get invited to the couple events. And, there’s this sort of stigma where I dunno, we don’t want to be the only single person there. We don’t have a partner. So we’re excluded from certain things. Wives don’t often want their husbands hanging out with a single guy and vice versa.
Daniel Herrold: Oh, yeah, I’ve heard all those things.
Dr. Tari : Yeah. And so having people that really understand you, aren’t available to go out and to do things with you and connect and are in a similar life. Circumstance is just such a beautiful thing. And I don’t think a lot of people have that.
Daniel Herrold: And I think an added thing is sometimes you want to create a new circle of friends because everybody that was in your previous circle, Was when you were, had a partner. They know the dynamic of that and you may not want to be open and sharing, how you’re navigating your divorce with someone that, knows your ex really well. I think that’s part of the motivation of finding new friends is not only to find people that. Divorce where they can show empathy and you get the head nod when you start talking about what you went through, because they’ve been through it, which is incredibly it’s part. I think it’s very therapeutic. It’s no different from a support group, but a social support group, but also just to create a new tribe. We always talk about a reset, a rebirth, starting over. Life after divorce can be something that can be exciting. And I think a lot of people want to start over with a, maybe I hate to say this, but a whole new set of friendships as well, and leave those, some of those, not all, but some of those legacy friendships behind. So I think that’s part of it as well.
Dr. Tari : Yeah. I love this idea of like a rebirth, a new chapter. I think there’s so many people that are afraid of divorce. And I work with people like that. It’s I don’t want to, I don’t promote divorce, but this is the best time of my life. Divorce is really the best thing that ever happened to me. And I’m not undermining the impact on my kids, but my kids are much better off having a happy and joyful mom than one who’s Stuck in a marriage that isn’t working anymore. So I think people don’t really understand that you can turn the page and really create a life that feels great.
Daniel Herrold: There’s two things that I think prevent someone from getting out of maybe a really bad situation or a situation in which they’re incredibly unhappy, where they know, that there probably is a better opportunity for happiness. On the other side, if they broke through that barrier, I think one is just the fear of the unknown. What does that mean for me from a career standpoint? What does that mean for my kids? I think the second one is shame, and I just think that a lot of that is very self-imposed versus the outside pressure. You get a little bit of the outside pressure, whether it’s religious or otherwise. That, divorce means that you’re a failure. And it’s not right, but I think we put a lot too much pressure on ourselves and we all go through that emotion of feeling shameful, that we’ve done something that’s wrong and bad and shouldn’t be done. And that’s something that I think it’s hard to overcome. And I think a lot of people get to the end of the rope where they’re just like. Screw it. I got to do it now, and break through that barrier. But if some people chose to break through the barrier a lot earlier, they’d probably be saving themselves a lot of heartache and a lot of stress
Dr. Tari : Yeah. And why do you think it’s not a failure to leave a marriage?
Daniel Herrold: I feel if you’ve left a marriage that where you’ve given it your best, and you also realize that everyone’s going to be better off at the end of the day. You, your spouse, your kids, particularly then I think that’s a wise choice. I’m not an advocate for divorce. Someone asks me in a podcast. If you had to do anything all over again, What would you do? Caught me off guard. One of the things that I said that, maybe leading up to the point in which I decided to move out, I wish that I would’ve tried a little bit harder, but I was emotionally detached and I was no longer investing in the marriage. And so I’m not an advocate but I think in a lot of cases, it is a better choice for everybody, for the health, the mental health, the physical health for that, both spouses and the kids. And I don’t feel like it’s failure. I feel like it’s making a good choice for the betterment of all.
Dr. Tari : Yeah. And I work with a lot of people and in my own case, my ex and I were in couples therapy, almost our entire marriage. So like we tried and yeah, I think at a certain point for some people you have to recognize there’s just no growth left here. There’s just either, I can’t be my best self in this relationship. My partner can’t show up and do the work, or there’s just nowhere for us to go here. And I think it’s in those cases too, it can be the courageous choice. To move on, not the easy one,
Daniel Herrold: and if you’re, and if you’re reflective about it and just realize that, for me looking forward in my next relationship I feel like I’ve, I know where my flaws where I divested from the marriage. And you hope that you would make an effort to be better to actually create change in your life, to be a better spouse, to be a better partner the next time. Cause you know, divorce rates as you know are even higher in the second marriage and even the third marriage. And I think it’s because a lot of people aren’t self-reflective and have the humility to understand here are my flaws and here’s what I need to work on. They’re not, they don’t do the work. They’re just jumping into the next relationship and it’s just the same thing’s going to happen. And at the end of the day, you have to look at and say there’s a common denominator here. Isn’t there,
Dr. Tari : Yeah,
Daniel Herrold: each situation. And I just feel like the work isn’t done and that has to get done.
Dr. Tari : Yep. I feel like every episode I do have Dear Dater. At some point in the interview, we always get back to this idea of self work, right? Either you’re going to do it or you’re not. And if you’re not going to do it, your relationship patterns are not going to change.
Daniel Herrold: Look as a divorce man and woman, every one point of conversation and 99% of the day is what happened. Tell me what happened in your marriage. And then they tell you and they’re like, Okay. tell me what happened in your marriage. It’s inevitable that you do discuss that at some point, but when you get into these people that are just so angry, so bitter, resentful, all they’re doing is pointing fingers. They’re not doing the work. They obviously need to probably go through some healing. You see this many years after marriage or after a divorce has occurred where someone’s still pointing the finger and not really looking at themselves and not creating the change and the same behaviors and patterns are just going to emerge again.
Dr. Tari : And that would be a red flag to pay attention to.
Daniel Herrold: Yes. Run. Run as fast y ou can. Because you can’t change him. And nor should you go through the energy of having to change them.
Dr. Tari : No, it’s not going to work anyway.
Daniel Herrold: Exactly.
Dr. Tari : The only thing we can change is ourselves. So let’s talk about dating after divorce. Where do we start?
Daniel Herrold: Exactly. So for me, dating was when I, again, as I mentioned here I am, I’m single again, my self-worth was like, so little. Cause you’re in so much pain and, you’re not getting lifted up by your spouse at the, tail end of your divorce, if anything, you’re being torn down. And so I had very little self-esteem, self-confidence. But I was in sales as a career, so I could engage with anybody and I could put on the front. But I didn’t really know that I was going to be attractive not just physically, but in terms of who I was, my character, et cetera. And I do think that dating is, can often be a great tool to rebuild your confidence and to go through that process and to see people, going through the banter and the flirting and hearing compliments, in many cases you haven’t heard that for years. And so I think for me, that was something that made me realize, okay, maybe someone will want me again or wants me. And going through the first couple of dating experiences, I didn’t know what I was doing, Tari. I didn’t know what I wanted, what I didn’t want. All I know is I was lonely. And I wanted connection and I wanted sex too. That was a part of it. Let’s not, let’s not Dodge that bullet.
Dr. Tari : big part of
Daniel Herrold: It’s huge part of it.. And so I got into too. I wouldn’t even say long-term relationships. One was three months, three and a half months. The other one was. A month and a half, but they were like committed off the dating apps, relationships right out of the gate. Bam-Bam and both of those were crash and burn because again, I was still juggling the divorce. The dust was still in the air. Kids were struggling. I was struggling. And, in hindsight I should have, I think there needs to be like a cooling off period. When you’re coming out of a divorce, just to take a breather, let the dust settle and then start dating. Don’t start dating with the dust is all in the air and you don’t even know left from right. And I did that and they were, they ended well, but they weren’t healthy. And I realized when I got out of the second one, I was like, okay I really enjoy dating. I still want to do it, but I need to be more transparent and explicit on what I want and what my intentions are. And so I just was very open and honest with everybody that I encountered with, you know what? I’ve been through a couple of relationships. I’m not ready for one. I just got divorced. I’m looking for connection. I’m looking to have a nice dinner with someone and have good conversation or drinks, or, .Whether you call that casual, it’s probably the best term for it I was very explicit with everyone that I connected with, that I was attracted to where there was good rapport to say, this is where I am right up front out of the gate. There was no misrepresentation. And I let them make that choice whether or not they wanted to choose to invest time with me. And I’d say in many cases, as you know when you navigate dating, people are at different stages in terms of what they want, what they don’t want. Where they are in the stage of their health and their recovery outside of maybe a traumatic event, like a divorce. And you know a lot of times they’re very misaligned and it’s hard to find someone that’s like-minded with you, same stage of life, as well as same goals and intentions. And so there were, seven times out of 10, the people that I encountered would say, you know what, this isn’t for me. I’m at a different stage, I’ve gone through what you’ve gone through. You need to go through that. And so I felt like being honest and not disguising it, what I, what my real intentions were. I think it was healthy to allow people to make decisions. And then there were other people that are at the same stage as me, or maybe they were like, oh you look fun. I’d like to go out with you anyway. There’s a lot of those were not good, but I should have said no anyway, but there are plenty that set out. If you’re in town, let’s go have a drink.
And as I look back, what I was really doing at the end of the day was I was just trying to make friends. I was looking for connection and I looked and I took the approach that I just want to meet interesting people from the opposite sex. And, in some cases, some of that progressed sexually. I’ll admit that, but in other cases that didn’t, and but I felt like I learned how to navigate it in a, just open and transparent way to where there wasn’t all this misrepresentation, all this lack of integrity that you see in dating. And it was so refreshing for a lot of women. The feedback that they’ve given me is oh my gosh, I love that you’re being truthful and honest because I never see it. And it gave me opportunities to really cultivate a lot of really neat connections of which many of those I still have today. Many of them were in my organization. It’s crazy.
Dr. Tari : Yeah.
Daniel Herrold: Okay.
Dr. Tari : It’s so cool. And I think that transparency you’re talking about that honesty, that integrity is so important. It’s pretty rare. And I will also, say that to people listening to this. Listen, if you’re looking for a relationship, don’t date, somebody who’s just getting out of it and a divorce or a marriage. It’s not gonna work as badly as you want it to work. It’s just not gonna work
Daniel Herrold: It’s so rare. It’s so rare that it would work. I think the only time in which you would work, Tari, is if someone’s already done that work Like at the tail end of their divorce. And so that was just a formality, but there are, they’ve already been so far detach for it, but even then it’s still a yellow flag. People need time to breathe and figure out what they want. And that’s another thing in dating casually is that every encounter that I had was like a learning lesson. Not only was it like practice. Just to be able to engage with people and ask questions and be curious enough, feel like you’re doing all the talking. There’s a whole art of that but also every encounter you’re like, okay, I really liked that quality in that person or that attribute or that passion that they have. Or boy, I really don’t like that quality in that person, or I don’t like someone that’s in that life stage. And then you just start to formulate, what was like this blurry image of Who that next plus one is. And each day each date that occurs, it gets a little bit more granular as far as what those attributes are. Those characteristics, the non-negotiables, all of that. You’re never going to have all that coming right out of the gate. You got to go through the exploratory process and figure all that out, but you can do it in a respectful way to where you’re just not screwing people over and misrepresenting yourself as you’re trying to navigate through.
Dr. Tari : Totally. And I also think, just some of my personal experience, I know all of this, I know you shouldn’t date somebody right out of a divorce. And a couple of years ago, I go on a first date with someone I meet on an app. We have this like amazing first date, but halfway through the date, he tells me I’m his first date since his divorce. And I’m like, oh, hell no. And he didn’t get it right. He was like, what’s the problem? And I’m like, no, you need to go date and explore. And he’s I don’t want to, I met you, I want to date you. And because I liked him, I’m like, okay. So we dated like pretty intensely, like we got off the apps we dated, it was a great, wonderful relationship. And then after three months he realized like, oh God, I’m not ready. Which I knew was coming. So even if somebody, themselves doesn’t have the awareness that you had at a certain point, Daniel to say, I don’t think I’m ready for something serious. Just tuck that into your mind. Somebody coming out of a marriage or coming out of a divorce, like they need time to explore and date. And it’s just probably the way it is.
Daniel Herrold: and here’s the problem is. You get so caught up in the physical attraction. The banter, the flirtation, someone cover covering you with compliments and you just get enamored with that. And it’s you get glossy eyed, and you can’t see things clearly. And that’s really hard to create the vision and to be acutely aware of when there’s a yellow or red flag, that’s out there when you’re caught up in the emotional piece of it. For me, I just was, I think that I just had was very just very real true to myself and I just, wasn’t going to deviate from what I wanted. And even I had encounters and dates that blew my socks off, but I still came back at the end of the day and said, no, this is what I want. It’s not fair for me or that other person to progress this any, any further. From an intimacy standpoint or from a relationship standpoint, but that’s so hard to do when you’re caught up in the flirt flirting and all that stuff. And, even for even having friends, don’t help either now just go for it, or they’ll tell you, and then you went, you’re like a little kid where you do exactly opposite what your mom and dad tells you to do. You’re like screw that.
I’m doing it just because they told me not to. If you feel something in your gut, we’ve talked a lot about gut on clubhouse, or if you end the, that the key is not to get out the front door. Don’t enable yourself to get out the front door until you’ve done the work to figure out if there’s some, if there’s at least some alignment in terms of what your intentions are and the other person’s. Cause if you get out the door and you and the physical jumps in, or you meet him and you have a great date the glossy eyes are gonna cover up and you’re not going to see clearly. Whereas if you’re having those conversations to figure out where they are in their stage of life, you try to figure out maybe some of the non-negotiables, do they fit the [00:31:00] check, those boxes? And you’re at least doing it from a far before you actually step out the door and go on a date. I think you have the better ability to cut your losses and say, no, you’re not the right person for me. I don’t that’s there was a lot of that. I find this beautiful woman, that I’m matched with and she’s 34. She hasn’t had kids yet. And I’m like there’s no way in hell. I’m going out with this girl because.
Dr. Tari : Right.
Daniel Herrold: And she’s, they’re like, ah, might be I’ve heard this so many times. I might be past the, my time, it just didn’t have, I’ve heard or, I focused on my career. I really don’t know if I want kids. That means that in the back of your head, you want kids. I don’t want kids. I’m not going to put myself in a position or put you in a position where we get glossy eyed and I’m not standing firm to my non-negotiables. And trying to do as much before you get out the door would be my advice. I don’t know. What do you think? But that’s, I think that’s a good way of, avoiding the glossy I’d feel, I don’t even know what the term is for that.
Dr. Tari : Yeah, no, I just think it’s like the chemistry, the attraction, the validation yeah, I think it’s that filtering process. And I liked the way you put that. And yeah, I think unless a woman is saying, I know a hundred percent, I don’t want kids, at that age, she probably shouldn’t be dating someone in their late forties who doesn’t want to have any more children,
Daniel Herrold: and I, I’m dating someone right now that I met at one of our events, even though they’re not dating events. So I could have in essence kicked myself out of my own group because I broke the rule, but I met someone in an organic way. She’s 10 years younger than me. And she made a choice not to have kids in her marriage. And I was really hesitant. I, those yellow flags went off and I, but I had those conversations. With her about, Okay, let’s talk about this because I don’t want to start dating you and it to progress to something serious. And then I later find out that boy, you sure wish you could have one when mine is 18 and about to graduate. And and I, it took me a good 60 days of, I had to keep bringing it up just to make sure that I kept getting the same answer. And then finally, the more that I learned about her, what her reasoning was and that she was firm on that decision. I was like, Okay. I can check that one off the box. That’s not something that I’m going to need to worry about, know, you gotta do that work upfront. Even if you’re casually dating so that you don’t get caught up in the enamor and the attraction, the chemistry is a great way to describe it. And then it’s too late. And then you can’t think straight.
Dr. Tari : Yeah. All those chemicals are surging through your body
Daniel Herrold: are lots of, a lot of them too.
Dr. Tari : Oh yeah. Yeah, I wouldn’t, you said something earlier. So that first relationship that I was in after my death or separation, it was like total whirlwind, big romance, lots of validation, just lots of intimacy. And when that ended, I think I remember being in my house and just my girls were at school. Pippa was at preschool. Renu was kindergarten, I think. And it just hit me that I was alone. And you said sometimes that first relationship is a way to avoid or distract yourself from the loss. And even though I didn’t perceive my divorce to be a loss, I was avoiding this new reality that I was alone. And I remember my neighbor across the street texted me about something. She asked if she could come over to get something. I said I’m sitting here crying. You can come over. And she’s like, why? And I was so afraid. To just be alone with my girls, just like in the utter, complete aloneness. And I had avoided that for months because I was in this relationship. So I just think it’s so important for people to understand that, even if it’s a good decision for you to leave a marriage, there is loss involved in that there’s change. There’s going to be sadness and big feelings and a relationship. Any relationship is not going to save you. Even if I had married that guy, which you know, would have never happened, there’s healing that needs to take place there’s feelings that need to be felt.
Daniel Herrold: And I see it so many times where there’s so many different motivations for why people are aggressively pursuing a relationship when the timing isn’t right. Whether it’s loneliness and you’re filling that void. Whether it’s, I feel like I’ve got my, my ability to remain attractive is gonna wane as time goes by, and I’m no longer going to be attractive. It could be a financial need. There’s all sorts of reasons why people are moving too fast and you’re right. I usually said there’s two things that need to be done, but I almost need to say that there, I almost think that there’s three. I think you have to do the work. And heal. Dating can be part of the healing process as long as you’re true to yourself. And you’re no, you’re not looking for something serious, but it was part of my healing process. For sure. I think also then there’s a self-discovery process where you figure out the new you, what is the new Daniel, the new Tari look like? What do they want? You have all this autonomy to be able to make decisions on your own. Do you want to travel a lot? Do you want to move? Do you want to start a new career? Do you want to pick up a new hobby? If you embrace it because it’s scary to try new things and really focus on discovering the new you, then you’re in naturally evolves to a person that is comfortable being single, because you’re happy about your life and your pursuits. And that’s when you’re the most attractive. And that’s when it’s good to figure out who’s that plus one going to be that aligns with the new you. And too many times we put it in reverse. We’re looking or the total opposite way where we’re looking for someone right out of the gate, because we feel this pressure internal pressure, but we haven’t rediscovered ourselves. And so we’re going to rediscover ourselves and you’re going to look over and be like shit, that person doesn’t match up with the new Daniel and I use this analogy a lot.
Daniel Herrold: I could have gone out and I could have focused on intentionally dating and trying to find a relationship and right out of the gate, which I did, but could’ve continued and carried on that. And then I come later, come through and through the discovery process, I were like, want to move to Florida. I’m ready to make a big change in my life. And then you’d look over and there’s this person that’s deeply rooted in Tulsa or wherever. And you’re like, well, you don’t align with what I want. And so how do you reconcile that? How are you going to solve that problem? So there’s just, you really got to go through who the new you is. And then the plus one is just icing on the cake because you’re already happy and excited about your next chapter. And you’re perfectly happy being single and exploring and pursuing whatever it is and finding that one person isn’t the main driver of your life now. But w but if they do come around and you know what, that’s, when you’re the most attractive too, is when you’re there.
Dr. Tari : Totally and, Divorced over 40, this idea of having a community of friends and people, it’s the same thing. It’s what kind of people do I gravitate toward? How do they reflect back to me? It’s such an important part of your life that I think a lot of us miss. And I just love this idea that you’ve created this community globally for people to go and find their tribe right. And forge friendships, because that’s a, such a big part of our identity and who we’re becoming. So instead of just
Daniel Herrold: and when you say that in hindsight, if I had to go back and do something different in my marriage, it would have been to have fostered some meaningful friendships with guys that I could carry on. I think a lot of people would say that, gosh, I wish I had some better friends. That I would have invested in and maybe balance my life out a little bit better. And this is now the opportunity for you to do that. And even if you find a place and look, let me tell ya, when you find your plus one, that doesn’t mean you disregard those friends. Now they’re part of your life and you can be different than what you were in the past. And you can create the balance where you’re still doing things, whether it’s couple type activities or just hanging out with your friends. And we provide that. What we do is we’ve created a platform where. We all know, it’s incredibly hard to make new friends. A lot of people ask us where do I go? Where do I look? And what we tell you is, all you have to do is plug in. All you have to do is show up. We’re going to create the venue and the activities. And all you have to do is be brave walking into an environment where, you know absolutely nobody and just be willing to show up. And I can’t tell you how many stories I’ve seen or how many people have observed from the distance that brave that first event. And now they’re fully ingrained with a tribe and doing stuff all the time and you can just see how rewarding it is for people. And so that’s what we’re trying to create is creating that missing element that I think everybody wants and yearns. And you know what, it’s a great distractor to keep your light, from, if you do feel those pains of loneliness. Now you have a tribe of friends that you can go out with and do things with. So I think it’s that added benefit.
Dr. Tari : So how do people join Divorced over 40?
Daniel Herrold: I would say and let me preface it, that we try to be as all-inclusive as we can. So we have a lot of 35 year old divorcees come to us and say, not quite 40. Could I come in the answer is yes. We picked the name because that’s our stage of life, but we’re inclusive of late thirties were definitely inclusive of fifties and 60 year olds. I had an 84 year old man reach out, wanting to come to the happy hour. And I said, come on. What we’ve seen Tari is we are attracting the widowed community as well because they go through a lot of the same feelings and emotions and the starting over and new friends all those, they have the same set of needs. I think. The divorce community has as well. So we’re inclusive of that group of people too, but probably the best way is to go to our website, which is Divorced over four zero.com. And you can either go to the events tab and you can see all the events that we have. I think we have 20 across the country right now. Or you can go to find your tribe. There’s a link at the top that says, find your tribe. You fill out the information. Tell us where you live, and if we have a chapter or a tribe there, I’ll plug you in with the leadership team and they’re going to reach out to you personally and get you plugged into how they engage and how they communicate. And then follow us on social media. We have a lot of we’re having a big vacation. Our audience has said we want an adult only, divorced over 40 vacations. So we’ve got a Cancun trip in September that we’ve got over 50 that have signed up for. No, it should be fun. And we’re planning some bigger events, but I’d go to either find your tribe or go to the events page on our website and that will get you plugged in.
Dr. Tari : Okay. And then from your website, can they find your Instagram?
Daniel Herrold: yes, Instagram’s there. I answer every DM, every email. And if you have any questions at all you can reach out to me whether the social media or on the website.
Dr. Tari : And are you still looking for ambassadors for different cities? If someone is interested.
Daniel Herrold: That’s thank you for bringing that up. That’s a great question. So we have 77 right now. We just added Costa Rica, which I’m really excited about.
Daniel Herrold: She’s lived there her whole life and she’s excited. She’s there’s nothing like black, this community and San Juan I think is where whatever the capital is. Yeah. We add three to five, three to four a week, and it’s really people reaching out saying, do you have a C, do you have a tribe in Tampa or Dallas? And we’re like, no, but we’re looking for people who might be willing to lead. And then those people will say I might be interested in leading and we educate them on what that process is. I’m a big believer in leading by committee. Tulsa, we have seven people that are on the leadership team and Oklahoma city, we have five. In Chicago, we have three. And so we’ve got, I love it when we have multiple people that are willing to step up and kind of orchestrate activities in their city. And it’s so rewarding to see it because we’re with this leadership team is like this little friend group we’re all in the same chat. And yesterday Two ladies, one from a city ambassador from Pittsburgh and one from Youngstown, Ohio met in between and went and had drinks together. And then two city ambassadors in LA that we just, that just signed up that didn’t know each other one went to the other’s house and had a glass of wine and sent a photo to the group. And I’m like,
Dr. Tari : Wow.
Daniel Herrold: I’ve told you before, I feel like I’m a friend matchmaker. And I loved, I love seeing pictures like that because these people are finding connections that they would never find otherwise. And it’s so meaningful in their life. I just love it. Yeah. We’re always looking for leaders literally across the world, but certainly, what’s going to be fun is my vision is at some point, anybody in our community could go to virtually any major city in the U S and if they wanted to hang out with someone in our community, they could reach out. And go have a coffee or dinner or lunch or drinks, and that’s the goal. So it’s going to be a huge network.
Dr. Tari : Wow, this is so cool that you’re creating and you’re so perfect for
Daniel Herrold: Thank you. And you’re coming to the Cancun trip, whether you like it. or not. I’m sending you the it’s and Dr. Tari is going to carry them. You can do your podcast down there. It’s perfect.
Dr. Tari : yes. I’m sure it’ll all. It’ll be all work down there. Yes. I’m so glad we met. I’m so glad we’re friends and I’m just super excited to see. What Divorced over 40 is going to become and what more good you’re going to do in the world?
Daniel Herrold: I am so glad we met. It’s so fun being friends with you and watching your journey with your podcast and hosting rooms with you. And so that’s, what’s so fun about. Having that autonomy and having a little bit of freedom is that you can really, if you really want to, you can foster friendships, some deep friendships from anywhere. You just have to go seek them. And I think we’re both like minded that way. And it’s been a fun friendship getting to know you.
Dr. Tari : It has.