How to Date MEN Vs. BOYS – with Barry Price

Dr. Tari and Barry Price talk about how to attract men vs. boys in dating and the differences between the two.

Barry Price has been a dating coach for powerful women since he was eight years old, sitting at the kitchen table with his single mom breaking down her dates. Since then, he has been trained as an ICF coach and led by renowned psychotherapist, Esther Perel. He’s coached thousands of powerful women to create healthy lasting relationships with the right man, and his daily podcast “Her Dating and Relationship Secrets” reaches hundreds of thousands of women who are ready to put their needs and boundaries first so they don’t give their power away in relationships with men.

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Episode Transcript

How to Date MEN Vs. BOYS - with Barry Price

Welcome to Dear Dater, the PodCast for people who want to change their disappointing relationship patterns and finally access the love they deserve. My name is Dr. Tari Mack, and I’m a psychologist and celebrity love coach. My journey has been one from disconnection and loneliness to love and miracles. And I want this PodCast to give you the tools and awareness to help you create and access the love you want in your own life. What we yearn for is meant for us. So if you yearn for love, you’re meant to have it when we change. Our relationships change. I’m so glad you’re here.

Dr. Tari: I’m super excited today to have our guest Barry Price on our episode; Barry has been a dating coach for powerful women. Since he was eight years old, sitting at the kitchen table at the single mom breaking down her dates. Since then, he has been trained as an ICF coach and led by renowned psychotherapist Esther Perel. He’s coached thousands of powerful women to create healthy, lasting relationships with the right man; his daily podcast, her dating and relationship secrets, reaches hundreds of thousands of women who are ready to put their needs and boundaries first. So they don’t give their power away in relationships with men. Welcome, Barry. So excited to have you here.

Barry Price: Thank you so much for having me. It’s always interesting. When you hear someone read about you. Back to you, and you’re the listener, and I’m sitting there thinking, what kind of dating advice did I give it, eight years old? I might’ve even been a better coach then. And now who knows? I might’ve gotten right to the point. And why do you want to call him again?

Dr. Tari: I can imagine. I wish we had some video or audio of that.

Barry Price: Some clips. Yeah.

Dr. Tari: Yeah. So, Barry, today we’re going to be talking about men versus boys, right? And why, women often choose boys over men? What that means before we get into that, though. I want to ask you, you kind of alluded to it in the bio that I read, but how did you get into this? Where did it start for you?

Barry Price: Yeah, look, I didn’t grow up. When other kids are saying, I want to be an astronaut, and I was like, I want to be a dating coach. It wasn’t a thing, you know? That you play as a kid, but it really did start there. It started with going on the rollercoaster journey with my mom and the excitement of a Friday night, throwing all over her outfits out on the bed. And you know, holding them up and saying here, this is the red dress. This is the black one. Which one do you think? Eight, nine, ten, eleven, you know? I, every time though, I’m part of that discussion, you know, the hoop earrings or the dangle earrings, all of this kind of stuff, Charlie perfume was big at the time, so other Charlie perfumes hope she’ll now number five those are the two, right? And off she’d go. Right. All that anticipatory excitement. And then when she’d get home later, of course, as curious, right. So we’d sit at the kitchen table, and I would ask questions. You know, what kind of guy was he? Has he been married?

Did he talk about his ex? Was he nice when he talked about his ex? or did he really mean when he talked about his ex? and sort of stuff, do you think he’ll call. Right? Do you think he won’t call? And I also got to see the effect. Look, my mom was really confident and strong and charismatic and all that and a bag of chips, but I got to see what happened if by Wednesday he hadn’t called the effect on her. Right? So I really, I cared a lot. And I tried to do what I could, and I think that’s where I started to. I was getting to observe with a lot of caring, but being outside of it, I got to start adding up. Why did this one call them that one? Didn’t what was different, or why is this guy acting this way?

Like I had to start analyzing the behavior of men very early on. And then I was like a little nerd boy shy boy in high school at no boys school. So, like double whammy didn’t help, but I was a nice guy with no confidence. Then in my twenties, I was a player because I was fed up, of, you know? never having had a girlfriend by 22 or whatever.

And so I went the other way. It was a commitment from a guy. And then I’ve been with Anna for almost 19 years now. And that took a lot of growing up. Right? I bring that up because no matter what kind of guy a client is dealing with, I’ve been him. So I know what’s up. I know what he’s real at; what’s going on there? Right?

So I add that kind of that level of experience I had with my mom, figuring them out. Then I got to live in the skin of being these different men. And then for the last, last 10 years, you know? I officially got into this when I hired a life coach to help me with my career goals. And somehow, he turned me into a life coach. I was like, all right, fine. He gave me training, and I was supposed to be helping men. Cause God knows they need it. I was supposed to be helping men like shy guys become more confident. And then seven women hired me, and one guy hired me, and we had to, me and my coach had to sit down and say, what’s going on here?

And the women were saying, you, you, you know what, I’m going through? You seem to get, like you say things, and I’m like, yes, exactly. That’s exactly what’s going on in my head. So I understand both sides of the journey, and I guess that’s fairly rare. And yeah. And I like to help.

Dr. Tari: That’s amazing. It’s so interesting how our journeys, you know, kind of shape us into, well, I think we’re born with the gifts, right? But our journeys kind of help us get in touch with them. And you had your gift really early on.

Barry Price: Yeah, the wounds are the blessings kind of thing. Right?

Dr. Tari: Yeah, totally. Can I ask? So was your mom divorced?

Barry Price: You can ask anything you want. This is an AMA. Ask me anything. This is your PodCast. I’m your guest. Yeah, she was divorced. My parents divorced at four. This is good. This is where your therapy background could come out. You can roll deep. Now on this, we’ll do a session after, right? So they divorced when I was four.

But you know, at four and five and six out, first of all, I don’t think I was in any place to be aware enough to understand what dating was or giving her advice. Also, she didn’t start dating right away. I suspect she had to get her on her feet again and, and I’ve worked with a lot of post-divorce people, but typically coming out of it, there are two, there are two types that tend to work with me Post-divorce, other the ones that the emotional part of the marriage died long ago. So even though it’s becoming official now, they’re already ready to just really, it’s almost always a, I want to find myself again. Who am I now? What do I need now? I lost myself in that thing. Now I want to know what I need.

Or sometimes they’ve got enough. Space between them and that relationship now where it’s been a couple of years, and it’s like, now I’m ready to maybe date again. But I do not want to repeat that mistake. I don’t know if that was the question. I think I got kind of sidetracked on it, but that’s yeah, that was my journey also, you know, I have an older sister, she left home.
Around the time I was eight. So probably her and my mom would probably talk more about that stuff. Once she was gone, you know, off to college, then it fell to me to do that. Honestly, I think early in my career, there was a little bit of this transparent stuff of me trying to resolve some of the, like, I want to save my mom. I want to help my mom. I couldn’t help her be happy. All you want as a kid, you love your mom. You want them to be happy, but I couldn’t make that, like, I couldn’t make her dating choices for her. So I think it mattered to me to help people make better choices. But early on, as a coach, I had to let go of responsibility for clients’ choices.

Dr. Tari: Right. Right. People have to learn their own lessons a long way

Barry Price: You can’t save anyone? No.

Dr. Tari: Right, Right.

Barry Price: Then, by the way, ladies, you can’t change anyone. If you’re hoping to change a guy, maybe the light bulb will come out. No, it has to come out for him.

Dr. Tari: No. Yeah, don’t waste your time. So what is the difference between men and boys? Talk to us about that.
Barry Price: Before I do that, I’m curious. What would you say, like, first of all, do you, what do you think of the terms even man, and boy, and if you do agree with those terms, what’s the difference to you? And then I’ll weigh in.

Dr. Tari: Yeah, no, I totally agree. I think I tend to use different words, but I think that men are conscious. They’re intentional; they can own their shit; they’re able to express and hold space for emotions that don’t take things personally; they’re grown up. Right? So they don’t use all of their childlike, protective strategies that, you know, we all learned as kids but really don’t need as adults anymore.

They’re ready for something real. Oftentimes, I mean, depending on their stage in their journey, sometimes they’re not, you know, sometimes they’re not ready for a relationship, but they can communicate that. So they’re transparent and honest; they have integrity. And I think boys still have a lot of growing up to do and developing and maturing.

So they’re not usually as aware of themselves. They’re not usually as in touch with their own internal worlds, nor can they communicate that. And they tend to hurt women more, sometimes not even intentionally.

Barry Price: That’s

Dr. Tari: That would be my tick

Barry Price: Look, I love that. I think that’s great. Look at, to me; the problem isn’t boys, really boys who are boys are obvious they self declare the problem are boys that portray themselves as men. That’s where you get into major issues.

Dr. Tari: Hmm. Say more about that.

Barry Price: So the difference, then let’s talk a little bit about the difference and then how boys can often seem like men. One of the things that we need is a way to differentiate. And I think that’s what I was studying. With the men that would come through my mom’s life. Just trying to figure out the difference between the good ones and the bad ones. And I don’t mean bad like they were evil, but you know, boys, people who could hurt you, disappoint you.

So the first five M’s to tell a man from a boy, the first damn is maturity. It may seem self-evident, but there’s a little more nuance to it because under maturity, we have different types. Yes. There’s emotional maturity. Is he aware of his feelings? Is he emotionally literate, as I like to call it, to be able to like, discuss his own feelings, can he communicate them?

Is he comfortable having feelings? Can he handle the fact that he’s? If he can’t handle his, he sure won’t want to handle yours. Then other types of maturity matter to financial maturity; that’s not an amount of money question. It’s, what is his relationship with it? You know, when, when. Healthy men raise a young man.

They teach them things like responsibility. I’ll buy you this really great quality piece of machinery or tool, but you must learn to take good care of it, respect it. Right? Men learn lessons about respect early, respecting themselves, respecting a partner. So how does he treat money? Does he just blow it as soon as he makes it? Is he, respectful steward of money?

That’s a form of maturity. Is he socially mature? What kind of people is he hanging out with? I had one client that I had hung out with, boyfriend, would, always, go get high and go snowboarding in his fifties. This was his lifestyle, and we called his friends the, the bunch of the band of Mary morons because it’s who he hung out with. So that said something about I’m spiritual maturity matters too. So there’s a whole bunch of, kind, of, subcategories to it. It’s not just, you know, the guy wears a suit and has a good job.

Dr. Tari: Right.

Barry Price: That’s thing number one. And number two, I think the most overlooked one, I seem to be bringing it up in every Clubhouse room PodCasts anywhere I can, can avail myself to let strong, powerful achieving women know about it. Cause this is where they can get really mixed up. Mission boys don’t have a mission. Boys are still figuring it all out. I don’t know who I am. I’m not sure what matters to me. I’ll try this. Maybe I’ll try that. They can be more narcissistic and ego-based. I just want to get rich or Mini-me. I had a conversation with a female entrepreneur that was making eight figures and saying, men seem intimidated by me. And I think I just need to find a guy who out earns me. I was like, absolutely not. That’s not the only way to do this; it might doesn’t guarantee any success.

Dr. Tari: And this is such a common question with women,

Barry Price: Yes. Especially ambitious.

Dr. Tari: Right.

Barry Price: High.

Dr. Tari: Is it true?

Barry Price: No. So I said to her, I said, look, let’s say you met a man, and he was the United Nations lead ambassador for children’s rights around the world. And he visited foreign leaders around the world to battle uphill, to change the situation of child labor; child soldiers against incredible odds, said, what do you have trouble respecting him? Because he didn’t earn what you earned. She’s like, Oh, hell no. I love a guy like that. I’m like, that’s right, because he has a mission. He’s clear on something bigger than himself that matters to him because if a man doesn’t have that, he is probably avoiding challenges too, boy does as well not risking failure is only doing things for self-interest, and he’s also not going to be able to honor you and be willing to get through the difficult times.

The reason. So many people are attracted to a man in uniform. Isn’t the way the uniform looks. It’s what those types of things represent. It’s the fireman going into the burning building. It’s a coast guard diver going into the water on a mission to do something greater than themselves that garners a level of respect. So number two is mission. Number three is masculine. Cut me off, by the way; you need to, I can go. I can go

Dr. Tari: No, I’m loving this. I’m loving this. I’m taking it all in.

Barry Price: So the third M is masculine. Again, we hold this truth to be self-evident; it’s kind of like, yeah, tell me something I don’t know, masculine.

Dr. Tari: What is, that mean?

Barry Price: But what is masculine, exactly, right? There it is. That’s, and that’s, that’s why I love this one in our culture meaning just the westernized culture. We are too obsessed with external cues and markers, meaning just because a guy’s standing in front of a jet on Instagram that he owns. Or pretends to own just because he has big muscles or a big beard does not make him manly. That’s just a whole load of bull. I don’t know if I’m allowed to swear on your

Dr. Tari: Yes. Swearing is

Barry Price: It’s a whole lot of bullshit. These old, external cues. I like to call them, like the old machismo, it’s the safeguard champion, macho, man. It’s like, come on, get over it. And look, men have lost a little bit of connection with understanding our confidence in what makes us feel like men. Feminism wasn’t something men created.

So when women began to claim your power. And I believe every single woman is powerful but could be disconnected from it because of those coping strategies that made it wrong for you to stand in your power, growing up potentially, or the cultural things that may tell women, you’re not allowed to express your power, but every woman has power when she connects to it.

In her feminine, not just by getting into the masculine, both which is a whole nother discussion, but when women stepped more into that power, men didn’t know what the fuck to do with it. So in the eighties, you had the man, you had the old chauvinist trying to treat them like the little lady. And then you had the men that were scared to not open the door. Cause they, but they didn’t want to open the door cause they might get barked at, I can do that myself. What do you think? I can’t open the doors. And so men began to lose a sense of, well, who am I supposed to be in relation to women? They study men’s self-esteem. Men’s self-esteem goes down less. When their boss says they’re doing a crappy job, less when their best friend says they’re a shitty friend and not a great man.

Then if their woman is displeased with them, men have a natural inclination to need to feel like they can serve and show up in a way that that woman feels proud, like proud of the old Knights of chivalry kind of stuff that hasn’t died in men, but men didn’t know what to do with it. So men recently, you know, if you go look at romantic movie leads that play to the mainstream. It’s very interesting. How in the seventies, eighties, romcom, and then also action movies. There was that manly brusque, muscular outward masculinity, Rambo and Schwartzenegger and all this kind of stuff. Then you get into the nineties, and we get kind of the simpering spineless. What have you said, honey? The Hugh Grant kind of movement begins. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I’m so sorry. The man with no spine, just whatever you say, whom ho Hm. Forgive me.

Dr. Tari: Hm.

Barry Price: And we get into the two thousand. It suddenly man’s, you know? Especially when the recession hit and men’s performative self-esteem took a hit too. Who am I? If I don’t have a job? Who am I if I’m not doing it? Hannah Rosen had a great book called the end of men about this.

And so what happens in man is. Men start to get more in touch also, Dr. Robert Glover’s. Mr. Nice guys. Another fantastic book about this, men getting into a feminine energy for a decade, two decades, where I have clients that come in and say, Barry, I loved it at first because he could talk about his feelings, but my God, he never stops. It’s all he wants to talk about. He talks about it more than I do, and like, I need a little bit of structure and stability, and I need him to be, some, other things. So the man bun, yoga doing super sensitive, but to the extreme. Okay. And so a lot of men, again, trying to search for what felt like, you know, solid ground in the pool.

Like I need to put my feet in something that feels solid and masculine. And they didn’t know how to do it. So they just started going back to old school queues, going to Sterling men’s groups or other kinds of groups, or you beat your chest. Literally like you put on like fake war Peyton. Aw. You know, all this primitive said, I’m a man now. Well

Dr. Tari: Hear me roar.

Barry Price: You bellowed and jumped around and shit. It doesn’t; it’s not the new masculine guys. And into that vacuum. Well, it’s not Jordan Peterson coming in with his stuff either, but to get into what it is, thank you for corralling me. I needed that, the runaway train there. Okay. So the new masculine look we’re talking about, it’s not a gender thing specifically, right?

We’re talking about two, two polarities. Some would call it yin yang and all of this. Right? And we both have both sides. What you need is a man who. Yes. He has a developed connection with his feminine, but he doesn’t dwell solely there. It’s not his only or primary mode that he can go into. Okay. But he’s able to express feelings and vulnerability, but appropriately, he doesn’t come from a place of fear, but he does have fears, and he can take those fears to male support groups to help the male friends he’s communicative, but he also has words that matches actions got into it a little bit with one of the guys on a panel, right? About the unit consistency of a man’s words and actions. There’s nothing that takes the ground up from under a partner’s feet, a woman’s feet faster than he says one thing, but he does something else that inconsistency is not a powerful, modern masculine. So while there’s this fluidity of being able to communicate feelings and adjust, there’s also that solidity. Security that comes from, I say, what I, what I mean? And I do what I say and

Dr. Tari: Right. Consistency, integrity.

Barry Price: Yeah. So that’s the long answer. And I haven’t even kind of got into all that. That’s the masculine, that’s that third M.

Dr. Tari: That’s a whole other, that’s a whole other Podcast.

Barry Price: That’s a whole other one for real. Yeah.

Dr. Tari: No, but I think. It’s important, you know, this idea of masculinity because I think you’re right. I think we’ve been taught to look for these external cues. And I think it’s important that we find a man who can express and communicate how he’s feeling, what he needs, but it’s also a balance of being able to, you know, set boundaries with us and not just given to our whim, not just try to perform for us or be what society tells him as a man.

Barry Price: I would, I would say though, that 90% of the women’s problems that I talked to about relationships stem from the obsession with wanting to understand them.

Dr. Tari: Yeah.

Barry Price: Exactly what I’m feeding. Like I’m a drug pusher that doesn’t want to sell this drug. Every time I keep telling people, I did a PodCast episode recently saying it was like your biggest obstacle to actually having the relationship you want.

And I said, Look, I’ve noticed something because I’ve done six, 700 PodCast episodes from my daily PodCast. So whenever I put the word man or men into the title, boom. Oh my God. A million listens, ah, you know, everyone’s goes, crazy. But If it’s about you and you growing self-love setting boundaries far less interest, well, how are we supposed to be celebrated and honored if. It’s all about who do you want me to be? Tell me about you. I’ll be complete when I know him and him. And what’s he thinking, what do you think of me? We’ve got to get over the obsession about men, but it’s the gateway drug to self-work. Really. That’s what I’ve found. If I could just talk about self-love, needs, boundaries all day long, I would do it, but the obsession is on the external initially. Right?

Dr. Tari: Right.

Barry Price: So that’s why we’re here talking about it. So The fourth M is he makes me feel safe.

Dr. Tari: Huge.

Barry Price: And that could be physically for some people. Right? He’s big; he’s strong; he’s a protector. For others, it’s financial security. For others, it’s emotional. I don’t wonder who is calling you just now or where is he tonight? There’s emotional certainty and security, but he makes you feel safe. He doesn’t destabilize you, make you doubt yourself. He certainly doesn’t gaslight you. And the other M is Myself, meaning if I’m a man, I know myself. I know who I am. I know my values. This is me. And I’m gonna act consistently with that. So a man can lovingly, but firmly say no to a woman. This is who I am. That is someone you can trust. So that’s an important one.

Dr. Tari: I love that. And I know we’re talking about men, but I think it also needs to go the other way. Right? As women, I think we so often just throw ourselves into a relationship, give our power away. If he wants to spend more time with us, then we spend more time. We let go of the things that are important to us and our values. So we have to make sure that we’re someone that can be trusted. And some of that is standing firm and who we are, even when we find somebody we like or feel attached to.

Barry Price: And then, there’s the whole overcompensation phase, so many women who come to me, I’m strong, I’m independent, I haven’t dated in a long time. You scratch under the surface of it. It’s fear. It’s like when I get into relationships; I start putting my needs aside for where I obsess too much about. It’s like, I’m better off fill-in the blank alone. Right? They start thinking, but what that comes down to is I just don’t trust myself. I can’t trust myself more. Realistically, I can’t trust the part of me that gets so anxious or craves him so much. That he becomes the source of all light, warmth, and energy in my, you know, he’s the son, and I’m afraid of the loss of the son.

This is that anxious attachment stuff now coming up. And so I’m just, it’s like, it’s like an alcoholic saying I can’t trust myself and your alcohol. Like I have to avoid all bars, all Christmas parties, all. So sometimes that self sequestering, but that creates a high amplitude rollercoaster cycle.

Self-denial, self deny, self-denial. I had one woman who was strong-willed enough that for 17 years, she hadn’t been touched. Hadn’t been on a date. That’s how horrible her last relationship was, Right? When we have trauma or a horrible relationship. That’s why there’s more instinct to avoid. If you almost drowned in a swimming pool.

How eager are you to swim again? And that’s why I always say, like, it’s, you’ve got to take swimming lessons where you won’t get back to that. You have to learn to know you’ll be safe doing it. I know I can keep my boundaries. I know I can have a thriving business and be healthy and have a healthy relationship.

I won’t lose myself in this one. Strong doesn’t have to mean solitary. It doesn’t mean you need a man. Right? All my needs are met. I’ve learned how to do that. And I get to have a relationship. It doesn’t have to be an either-or unless you’re a nun and you’ve given yourself to God. Sometimes it happens.

Dr. Tari: Right. Which is a perfect segue because I think what we’re talking about is really like alignment, right? Like really being able to align with yourself so that when you get into a relationship you’re solid. You don’t re you can trust yourself cause you’re, you are your own home base as opposed to making the relationship your home base.

Barry Price: Yeah, it’s such an interesting comment. Two things come up from that for me. Number one is said Harriet Lerner, who wrote the dance of anger back in the seventies, had a quote about Stand Like A Mountain, but I think it was, bend like the grass. This is the key to being in a relationship. So know yourself, know your terms, but also be flexible at the same time. You know, I’m, I’m in, Esther Perel development group is I’ve talked about for, for coaches, therapists, and basically anybody. She brings everyone, and we’re listening to a discussion, with the lady, it was Elizabeth Lesser who founded the Omega Institute.

Dr. Tari: Oh my God. She wrote my very favorite book, Broken Open. Oh my God. She’s amazing.

Barry Price: She’s fantastic. Right. And so she was talking about self-help, self-development, self-growth, wasn’t really a thing until seventies, eighties, nineties, you know what I mean? We were into this, but she talks about how we can go so far. And I think we have gone so far into that now that the individualistic approach, my authenticity, I don’t like this journey for me. It can become very, me obsessed to where that flexibility part starts to be lost. Now I tend to bring in a lot of people that live at the two extremes, right?

I lose myself. I’m a powerful woman, but if I’m a powerful woman, why allow these things to happen? Why do I behave this way? Why do I let boys, so I’m going to go to the other extreme end and be very rigid in this and finding, that way to moderate and be in between not, not overly expecting. Everything has to feel absolutely perfect for me in the aligned culture of the; we need friction.
I love doing episodes with Anna. We’ve been together 19 years, and we talk about the massive it and how the friction of rubbing up against each other helped us develop. So it’s not just about self, but man, I am so big on self-empowerment and learn, what your needs really are. Where were you cut off from feeling you had permission to safely have those needs meet them, even with other people around, right?

Letting go of codependency and a lot of those things. But there is a flip side where once we have that in a healthy way, we also want to make sure that we are collaborative. Right? Developing a relationship style that includes my needs, your needs, and the relationship’s needs as a third entity because it needs things too. It’s like raising a child.

Dr. Tari: I love that. So this is a perfect segue then. So how do women attract men versus boys, and how do they change their attraction to men versus boys?

Barry Price: It’s funny. There’s that old joke. How do you get to Carnegie Hall?

Dr. Tari: Yeah. How do they practice?

Barry Price: It’s true, you have to do the work. Step one is you have to come into awareness. Awareness is always first. Like if you’re not aware you have a problem, you’re not going to do anything to fix it. First, you have to notice something’s wrong, for me; that was after my third major relationship. And I’d just started dating Anna, and I was complaining to my dad. She always argues in the end. He said, Barry, you’ve said that about everyone you’ve ever dated. It’s like, fuck, it’s me.

Dr. Tari: Damn it.

Barry Price: It’s either me. Yeah. Either it’s me responsible for picking them or me creating the friction of me somehow. But I’m the common denominator. A willingness to begin looking at your part, even if you’re attracting boys over and over again. Why am I? It’s not that your friend Lisa’s just so lucky. A pattern is a pattern because it repeats. That’s what her pattern is. Y’all. Right? So if a pattern is repeating and you are the one person who has been recast in the play on Broadway, you’re the only holdover cast member in the nine additions of this thing.

It’s you BU, it’s like, so we’ve got to look at that. Come on. So that’s first is awareness and then taking some accountability that doesn’t mean to blame blame as an old, very punitive way of looking at responsibility for things, of course, the man with the people on the other side, have their responsibility.

I’m so big on empowerment. We can’t be empowered if we just keep waiting for someone else to change; they have control over that. You want to give control and power away. Keep expecting the other person to change. You want to be empowered, own your shit, figure out what it is and get to work. So that brings me to the second part.

It’s not enough to learn about it. There is a lot of like fetish culture of knowledge. I was a heady Henderson as my wife called me when she met me, I assumed as I, fix it myself. I can do it. It was also a trust issue, but I was rewarded consistently for high grades for work performance, my brain brain, brain, brain brain.

So I thought information accumulation would change my emotional pattern, but you can’t solve a heart pattern with a head solution. We’re not looking for headmates, we’re looking for HeartMates. So we need to get into experiential change. It’s not enough to read 8,000 books. It’s not enough to listen to this podcast.

It’s not enough to listen to my podcast or, or any of the information gathering. You need to do that. That is a stage, but there is a law of diminishing returns like in statistics. Over-analysis can make for worse decisions when you’ve gathered enough information, take action. Action meaning, try to change your pattern, and if you struggle and you will, because that’s why it’s a pattern, there’s subconscious

Dr. Tari: It’s gonna be uncomfortable.

Barry Price: Reach out to a practitioner that speaks to you. Get help. Don’t try to operate on yourself. Subconscious patterns are beyond the pale of the conscious they’re behind the curtain. You can’t see them; you need the objective person to help you.

So I’d say that, that willingness and that’s very hard for anyone who’s been hurt or had trauma, or has not felt safe or honored in their lives because now you’re letting someone else in. And that trusting, telling you that trust obstacle is the we’re not. When I have people ask to talk to me, they go through an application.

I can’t talk to everybody. I wish I could. That’s why I, do, leverage things like this. But one of the things I filter for is how heavy a trust problem they have because if they have too big, a trust problem, they won’t let me in. We won’t get anywhere. And where I could have helped 10 people, I’m just there spinning my wheels with them.

So if you won’t let someone in to help you, one last thought on this, and then I’ll shut up. I promise I was in. So in college, I fell in love for the first time. I have no clue how to do it. So it was infatuation, right? I was. So I’m just not feeling good enough. And so it was a disaster. And then, the following year, I was depressed.

What’s the point? I’m broken. I can; I’ll never have love. So melodramatic, man, that was me like the poetic soul. I finally went into therapy. Grudgingly at the student center with a master’s clinical psychology student. And after a bunch of sessions, she said to me, you know, Barry, you’re smart. We could sit here, and you could take me around the dance floor all summer, intellectualizing objectives taught, talking, analyzing your problem, and never let me in. And I won’t be able to help you at all. Shed or you, you could take the risk and let me in, and we can actually help you. It’s up to you. And I was like, fuck. She’s right.

Dr. Tari: Hmm.

Barry Price: I had her, and my dad goes to the two insight bumps. So I let her in, and that’s when change began, but yet you have to let a good practitioner, and it’s not just your hairdresser. It’s not just your BFFs at brunch. It’s not just that. And it’s not the gamified entertainment culture we have around relationships. Where we’re just enjoying the bachelor or just laughing, and it’s like, no, man, you wouldn’t invest your money that way. Why don’t you take your heart seriously too? And put some real effort into it and get someone with some responsibility, like a fiduciary responsibility of an investment advisor. You need to have someone advising you and your relationships and dating and healing that takes it seriously.

Dr. Tari: Right. So let’s say a woman, you know, is willing to do the work. She’s going to lean into the uncomfortableness of doing things differently. What are some, like, what are the top three things that women need to do that maybe they haven’t been doing that have led them to attract boys or be attracted to boys? Like, are we talking boundaries? Are we talking, self-love? What have you noticed?

Barry Price: Well, yeah, yeah, look. So first of all, I would commend anyone with the courage to go into their old discomfort because all of this stuff starts in the past, and then we gather experiences to reinforce our story. Right? The first thing is That awareness step is, you know, you could look into a mirror, or you could sit down and do a little writing and reflection. Like one of the things I like to ask new clients is like, write down the last three guys you’ve been with or that you couldn’t get over. Even if you never got into the relationship, you just yearned for them, whatever. The last three love interests. How did it begin? What was it like in the middle and the end? And who were you at the beginning? Middle and end.

Dr. Tari: Oh,

Barry Price: Once you’ve gotten real with that, you ask yourself this question who have I had to be for this pattern to persist. See, now you’re identifying your part, right? And if you change your dance steps, the dance changes. There was no choice there. If you start moving differently, as my Caribbean Trinity friends would say in Toronto, I’m from Toronto originally. Shout out to all the West Indies people in Toronto. Right? There’ll be like, you know, it’s about the way the person’s moving. It’s like, you look at that, and you’re like, okay, what do I want to work on about myself? Then you go get the right practitioner for you.
Modalities depend, you know, I’ve done everything under the sun therapists, anti therapists, inner child workshops. Landmark asked; I even had an air Vedic Shaman out here on the West coast. I mean, I come from a more agnostic computer system background, but man, I got spiritual out here because I was willing to do anything.

I’ll wear a blue duck on my head if, and try it and see if it works. And if it works, I’ll keep wearing it. I don’t care so long. It works. Yeah. But that’s it, find that practitioner that speaks to you and taste tests them like you’re doing right now with Dr. Mac? With me? If, if you’ve been resonating with Dr. Mac and you know, you want to make a change, why haven’t you taken action? Have you reached out to her? And if not, why not? What is the fear holding you back from the life you say you want? You’re going to have to risk something at some point, just like you did in the other areas, right? Just any achievement. It’s not easy to become a professional or build something, you know? So there are things they have to risk and take that action. I know we’re. We’ve been going a while. So I’m going to shut up and let you do your

Dr. Tari: No, you’ve been wonderful. You’ve been great. And it also, I mean, you didn’t say this, but it seems like it’s just so basic. So I want to say that in order to attract men or to choose men versus boys, you’re going to have to really filter and be discerning. Right? So recognizing and being willing to look for those signs and red flags and being able to say no, you know? No matter how cute they are, no matter how much money they make, no matter how, how much attention they give you,

Barry Price: Unmet needs. That’s right. That’s how people get hooked-in. They have unmet needs. And if they think this guy will meet them, it’s hard to let go.

Dr. Tari: Right. But I think we, well, I know we have to say no to the boys if what we want as a man, we have to say no to the wrong people and hold space for the right person.

Barry Price: Yeah, because a healthy man has no interest in someone who’s playing around with bullshit.

Dr. Tari: Oh, I love that truth bomb.

Barry Price: Enjoy your voice. There’s not why, why would he do that? He has no interest in that. So you’ve got to do the spring clean and clear up the gutters, detox the boys. Look, you can check out my five M’s, and they are gonna link on my Instagram profile. I think it’s very Paul Price prices on Instagram, and there’s a, you know, all the bio, it always has a link. I think if you go in there, there’s a five M’s link to the PDF of the five M’s, but really just, you know, gain that awareness and reach out to somebody who can begin guiding you through what you can’t see. That’s holding you back.

Dr. Tari: Right. And I think the work that you’re talking about is really us becoming women, right? Because if we want to attract a man and be attracted to

Barry Price: So good. If Anna were here, she’d be like, yes.

Dr. Tari: Yeah, we need to, we attract what we are, so we need to grow up. We need to make sure that we are those M’s as well. Maybe not

Barry Price: Yeah, you’re the, that’s right. A hundred percent look, the, the formula I work through once people are ready, you know, it’s, it’s a five-step formula, but that very first step is who, who have I been up till now? Who am I ready to let go of being. And who am I stepping into being from here forward as a woman, a hundred percent and then it’s, it’s about clearing all those inner hang-ups that prevent you, right? When you get afraid, and you text him back, why did I do that? All of those kinds of compulsion is that we have to get our needs met and our fears that make us do things we regret and clearing those. So you can be that woman.

Dr. Tari: Love that. So how, how do women find you? They want to work with you? How do people find you to learn more?

Barry Price: I’m in an increasing number of places and yet harder to reach if that makes any sense, just sheer volume-wise because this is so needed. And I’m glad that I can help. So on Instagram, it would be Barry Paul Price. You can go there. And there’s a link there with various ways you can follow and experience me the PodCast, her dating and relationship secrets. Anna does lots of episodes with me where we’ll discuss things. You can find me on Clubhouse. Barry Price. And also, if you do go to the Instagram profile, there’s a way you can get on my email list, where I send a weekly summary of my top tools out of my podcast episodes as well as special invites and events and things I’m putting on. So yeah, that’s probably the best.

Dr. Tari: Amazing. I think this work that you’re doing is so important. It’s so valuable, and it’s gonna help so many women that are ready to do the work and change their relationship path. So thank you very much for the work you do, and thanks for being here.

Barry Price: I appreciate it. Thank you for creating the space for this. And look out, boys. You’re not going to have anyone to date soon.

Dr. Tari: We will end on that note. Thank you so much, Barry.

Dr. Tari: Thanks for tuning into Dear Dater. This is Dr. Tari, reminding you that if you want love, that’s meant for you.