“The Dream”, Heartbreak and What Our Relationships Are Really About : With Oprah Relationship Expert Susan Winter

SUSAN WINTER is a leading relationship expert and love coach who has helped over 5,000 people find, and keep love. As a bestselling author, (Older Women/Younger Men, Allowing Magnificence, and Breakup Triage), Susan specializes in evolutionary forms of loving partnership and higher thinking. She writes, speaks and coaches on dating issues, relationship challenges, and personal empowerment.

Susan’s 750+ media credits include: THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW, THE TODAY SHOW, CNN, ABC EVENING NEWS, BBC, COSMO, MEN’S HEALTH, HARPER’S BAZAAR, PEOPLE, BUSINESS INSIDER, FORTUNE MAGAZINE, NEW YORK MAGAZINE, THE LONDON TIMES, and THE NEW YORK TIMES. In radio, Susan is a frequent guest on NPR, BBC, ABC, and CBS NEWS. Her podcast, The Susan Winter Show, can be heard on Spotify and iHeartRadio. Public speaking keynotes include THE WORLD ECONOMIC FORUM, INTERNATIONAL MENTAL HEALTH FESTIVAL, and CORE CLUB NYC.

Susan and Dr. Tari discuss how we get attached to the “dream” which leads to heartbreak, how to heal from heartbreak, and what our relationships are really about.

Find Susan Winter: http://www.susanwinter.net

Susan Winter – YouTube


Learn More About Dr. Tari and Dear Dater: https://www.drtarimack.com/dear-dater

Episode Transcript

Frequency and Vibration, Alignment, Soul Attraction and How the Universe Never Makes Mistakes With Erin Eber

Welcome to Dear Dater, the PodCast for people who want to change their disappointing relationship patterns and finally access the love they deserve. My name is Dr. Tari Mack, and I’m a psychologist and celebrity love coach. My journey has been one from disconnection and loneliness to love and miracles. And I want this podcast to give you the tools and awareness to help you create and access the love you want in your own life. What we yearn for is meant for us. So if you yearn for love, you’re meant to have it when we change, our relationships change. I’m so glad you’re here.

Dr. Tari: Hello, and welcome to Dear dater. The PodCast for people who want to change their disappointing relationship patterns and finally access the love they deserve. I am so honored to have Susan Winter. On our episode today, Susan is a leading relationship expert and has helped over 5,000 people find and keep love. Susan is a best-selling author of three books, older women, younger men. Allowing magnificence and breakup triage. And she specializes in evolutionary forms of loving partnership and higher thinking.

Susan has been on the Oprah Winfrey Show. The Today Show, CNN, ABC Evening News, BBC, Cosmo, Men’s Health, and so many more, I can’t even name them all. Susan, you’re living my dream here.

Susan: Hi, Dr. Tari, how are you?

Dr. Tari: Great. I’m so happy to have you here.

Susan: You’re fun to talk to. I mean, we know each other from Clubhouse, and you’re generous there ,and you’re going to be on one of my shows there. So it’s just really exciting. Thank you so much.

Dr. Tari: Thank you. So I know we were chatting briefly before I started recording this episode about all the, all the nuggets I want to get to because you have so much wisdom to share. But before we get to that, can you talk a little bit about how you came to be in the space of love and relationships?

Susan: Completely accidental. I, believe me, I was retired, I was done. I was playing golf with a gorgeous young boyfriend. Didn’t want, you know, done late, late thirties, early forties done. And he happened to be 20 years younger, and I happened to have chosen the country homes so far outside of Manhattan. It was so rural because I needed the opposite, and I actually moved there full-time, gave up my apartment because the crime was so bad, late nineties, late, late eighties. It was bad. Right?

Dr. Tari: Where were you living?

Susan: I was living on the upper Westside.

Dr. Tari: Okay

Susan: And then I was living in Sussex County, New Jersey, which is exceedingly rural, no train, no bus line, anybody with ambition left, and the young guys I’ll go out there single build my McMansion. Okay, Have this gorgeous home on the golf course thought, Oh, I’ll consult a little bit, you know, just to keep myself busy. And I went to this little local hardcore gym, and that was great. You know, it’s like they drop the weights on the floor and the concrete’s all beaten up, and it’s real, you know, like gym rats, and then. There’s this beautiful creature. Like he was dropped from the heavens. He looked like a God, I’m telling you, wand hair, tan skin, blue eyes, magnificent bodies, six-foot-one, warm, open, bright, and I was reading a book on metaphysics. I’d be on a StairMaster. That was the day of the StairMaster?

Dr. Tari: Yeah,

Susan: I’d be doing my 35-40 minutes; I’m reading this big book on metaphysics. It’s like four inches thick. It’s called the science of mind. He’d come and chat to me. And I thought, Oh, how interesting? He’s always here when I’m here. Well, long story short, after a year of chatting back and forth, I never got one vibe the guy was into me. I had a younger boyfriend, 16 years younger. I’ve lived with a man, same age for 10 years and I’ve been bored out of my mind. That was my fault. Not his, anything that I say that’s negative about my past. I own it. I was there. I chose it. So it’s not them, right? But you grow, and you change. And so this young man, I think it was kind of destiny because, when we actually got together, our first date was a metaphysical church in Morristown. And, you know, cause I was doing the positive, thinking old school metaphysics. So in this little rural town, and you’ve got this woman from New York City, the fancy house had been in broadcast television, financial news. I was on my own show. That’s now CNBC. I mean, it’s like. They hated me. The moment I walked in there and this was even more confirmation. So the uproar and the gossip was unbelievable. I was literally crucified every day. I was there, and my neighbors wouldn’t play golf with me because they were terrified to be with me for their own social reputation, and so many lies and rumors were spread because the boring truth that we loved each other just wasn’t adequate. And I understand it was his mother who really wouldn’t have it. She was,

Dr. Tari: oh boy,

Susan: She was younger than I was, had him and Adam in high school, shotgun marriage. And I kept saying, why is the universe torturing me? I mean, I kept thinking I will go through fire If I understand there’s a purpose. And that was the; I came to the point of total breaking down. I thought, I don’t know why you’re doing this to me. I know it’s different, I love him, I’m helping him, I’m not bad for him. You know, I did not understand. And so this was supposed to been my dream home forever.
Dr. Tari: Yeah,

Susan: So this is how, Sometimes my, my belief is that the universe will kick you into your soul purpose and it can be in a direction you never saw coming.

Dr. Tari: Hmmm,

Susan: If I ever, ever, ever thought in a million years, Oh my God, I’m going to be all about younger men. No way. Oprah financial news, are you kidding? Never saw it coming, but then that led me to what I’m doing now. So I wrote, Older Women Younger Men, just because a friend said to do it. It became an international bestseller. It was pre-Cougar; it’s because I was so passionate about if I’m getting this level of hatred; imagine the other couples; I can’t be the only one. And I knew enough about alchemy that if something comes to me and it’s this painful, it has the ability to be transmuted into something positive. So I just had to find the way in a casual comment from a girlfriend, oh, we should write a book. I just, I thought, wow, humor her she’s not working. She doesn’t work. Maybe it will be therapeutic for me. Like we’re writing assignments turned out to be.

Dr. Tari: Yeah, Wow,

Susan: So that’s, I’m sorry. It’s so long. But the hatred set me on a path to correct and make a change in social consciousness. And I remembered praying over the book and just saying, you know, if there’s even one woman that this helps, please. And I never cared about the money and boom, gosh, I had so much, you know, I think all the years on camera or the years on stage, I had a lot to say I was articulate and it was the truth I’d gone through the worst of it. So the media just kept rolling it. I didn’t have a website for another eight years.

Dr. Tari: Oh my, the universe was just like, here you go. Like, this is your purpose. This is what you’re supposed to be doing.

Susan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s how I got my purpose.

Dr. Tari: Oh my God, I love that.

Susan: Sometimes, it’ll smack you sideways.

Dr. Tari: Yup,

Susan: So it’s not always going to come with a little bow around it. Right.

Dr. Tari: Right. Right. No, it’s so true. The reason I do the work I do is because of, you know, all the lived experience I’ve had, but it was really painful, but I’m grateful for it. So I feel you on that.

Susan: When we can use our pain to help somebody else. We no longer have the pain. And when I was fighting for everybody who didn’t have a voice, I became invincible. I felt like I’m on the front lines of the t-shirt, and they’re just like hitting me and kicking me and trying to spear me and stuff like that, and I was fighting for them. I wasn’t fighting for me anymore. I couldn’t fight for myself. I didn’t. So I obviously did a lot of writing, and that has helped me to study human nature.

Dr. Tari: hmmm,

Susan: I did not understand cruelty, narcissism, sociopathic behavior until it’s right in front of us. I didn’t know, game until I saw it. You know, you live through it, and you have to find a, find a fix.

Dr. Tari: Yeah, well, I’m so glad that that happened and you’re here helping the world in the ways that you do and helping people that are in relationships and looking for love. We need you.

Susan: Thank you.

Dr. Tari: So let’s just hop right in. There’s so much I want to ask you about, so one of the things I’ve seen you talk about is how we fall in love and why we get hurt and this idea of allowing hope. So, could you talk a little bit about that?

Susan: Well, so the way I look at it is some delicious bait is dangled in front of us. Like for me, the six-foot, one blonde guy with a 12 pack. Okay. That gets my attention. Like a little dog, I’m sitting up; I’m so somebody is dangled in front of us. And I think that is a grand scheme to get us into this design. Sometimes it’s unhealthy, but the reason for that is ultimately for our healing, right? So we have to bite the bait in a relationship. And that we, we live in that moment of having a sense of hope. It could be a breath of a moment where we let go, but if we don’t have that willingness, if we don’t, if we’re not sufficiently inspired by that bait in front of us, you know how they look at us, the chemistry, the connection we go in, the connection, the connection, you know, all that, right. We won’t enter. So we need to suspend for a moment our logical mind and leap in faith, hoping that we’re going to find what we seek; it is necessary for us to get in love, right? That’s the Susan version of it. I’m not a doctor. So I’m explaining it in my way. Now we need that to get in. It is also the thing that can impale us when we choose not to see reality. Because we so desperately want the dream that we see. And I also have a belief in something I called the dream, and that’s my way to describe the real thing that we are latching onto is the future fantasy, is the feeling, we’re like kind of black and white and life is normal. Then this person comes into our life and now boom, it’s technicolor, right? And so, all these things get inspired. Oh, I can see them with me in the summertime going to the beach. Oh my goodness. We can have a home together. Oh, I can travel the world. They love to travel. Suddenly you build this construct, right? A dream. And that is what you fall in love with. The person is the vehicle to it. But the dream is what you fall in love with. So these two things are colliding and creating the perfect environment for you to fall in love. Why do you get hurt for the very same reasons? This is not a game where we’re going to get, you know, a hundred percent is going to be our odds. It’s, it’s, trial and error, and it is oftentimes that very hope that gets us in that will keep us in an unhealthy relationship and then cause our heartache and the fantasy, the dream that we built around this person, they may not be willing or able to fulfill. So that’s kind of that story.

Dr. Tari: Yeah. So we’re not actually looking at reality, the person in front of us; we’re attached to this dream and trying to make it happen.

Susan: I think, I think, that’s what it is. I mean, I’ve stood in a window sill observing myself, crying, feeling this sense of love for somebody because this kid opened the portals of my love. I mean, I never felt anything like it. And then I had to think it through, and this is part of the breakup methodology that I teach is Adam standing in the window, and I’m cognizant of the fact that I’m sensing love. And I’m also aware of the fact that he’s not in my life, and I’m like, Oh my gosh, He’s not connected to this, this thing that I’m experiencing has nothing to do with him because I’m experiencing love on my own individually. Could it be that this love is my love? I think of it as being his because he ran away, and I’m sad, but what if I’m still feeling it? Then it’s my love, and I own it. Then I went to the next aha moment, like, Oh my God. I’m the one that chooses to love, I’m the one I control this, and so I write in a breakup triaging it’s, it’s like, We keep begging this person to give us a deposit slip for our little emptiness, right? Like just help me out here, give me a drop of gasoline, so I’m not empty, and then we realized, Oh my God, I own the tank, I own the bank, this is my bank of love. He just came in and bumped it. It’s not about him. So, at the end of all this relationship stuff, it’s not even about them.

Dr. Tari: Right! So what do we do with that? If we wake up to this power, this idea that we already have what we’re seeking. Then what?

Susan: Well, so if you know at the end of the story that none of this is about them, you might say to yourself, well, why am I even bothering? Isn’t it just about self-love? Do I need a partner? Why go through all the pain? But, this is why I think it’s a part of our evolution. Each time we come around to this, we get inspired, and some delicious bait is in front of us. We go on this trail of discovery, and yes, they add new input. Each human being has their own unique input, which is added to our data bank of things we like things, we don’t like, Oh, I never knew, I liked that kind of music, now I know what a narcissist is, going to stay away from that, whatever it is.
I think, crafted specifically for us. I think there’s a far wiser, greater plan here. And that in all of our determinism and self-actualization, we are concurrently being guided. We have a choice, but we can choose the best or the worst. And sometimes we get in a pattern, a negative pattern, and that’s like where the record skips the old vinyl records, and you’re trying to get past it at some kind of glitch, and that’s where especially people like you come in so handy to release us from this glitch.

Dr. Tari: Yeah, right. It’s like we keep getting the same lesson over and over again until we learn it.

Susan: And learning. It can be very hard because it can be very simple, and we just don’t want to see it.

Dr. Tari: Right. Or we, or we don’t want to do it after we see it, then we have to lean into the discomfort of doing something different and. That’s really hard or painful.

Susan: Yeah, yeah, I agree.

Dr. Tari: Wow. So I just love the way you talk about this cause it matches the way that I talk about it, but in a different language. And I just love what you said that the person is the vehicle to the dream.

Susan: I think so. And it’s so hard to remember two in the morning, you’re crying, your bed is stoked, you’re journaling, maybe you’re chain-smoking if you’re lucky and you drink, I don’t drink, you can drink, and you’re sweating, and you remember the smell of their skin and the taste of their lips, and that’s not going to help cause you’ve got the human suffering through the human experience, and the observer is going okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. You got to go through this. Okay. Did you see what they were for? Do you understand it yet? Are we there? Okay. It’s all right. You know, so I have these two things. I have the observer constantly watching Susan. Then I’m watching Susan go through all this stuff, and maybe that’s some kind of weird psychological thing where you could go, Oh, she’s got some side associated with it disorder, but you know, you’ve got your higher self. That is able to see it, but then the human does suffer through this human stuff,

Dr. Tari: Right. You gotta feel it. You can’t skip it or bypass it.

Susan: Rejection, you know, urinating desire, loneliness, delight. You’ve got all this stuff.

Dr. Tari: So, what is your advice for anyone who is stuck in that human experience of a breakup still clinging to the vehicle, the person, and not yet able to let go.

Susan: You know, I, I, did this little 33 minute audio booklet, right? And then you have to do an e-booklet before they’ll give you the audio booklet. I’ve walked them through this, and this is not to sell a book; it’s free on audible. And I think it’s like 99 cents on Amazon. It’s like, you never see any money from this stuff, I don’t, at least.

Dr. Tari: What is it called?

Susan: A breakup triaged the cure, but I really think that if you can jog the mind. The body and the heart will follow. If you’re still gonna feel the pain, but you’ll be one level outside it, one level removed one level more toward your higher self looking back at it, It didn’t mean, once I realized this, I had this massive aha moment It didn’t mean that I was done suffering, but the nature of my suffering changed it’s dynamic. It, it kind of, I looked at it from a different angle. And, and so for me, the mental work is so powerful. I think if I were a clinician, maybe it would be cognitive therapy that I would do or whatever, because the mind, if I, if I, if I altered just a fraction of my thinking, the emotions follow.

Dr. Tari: Right. Our thoughts create our reality.

Susan: Right. A massive part of getting over a breakup is deconstructing this perfect thing that left your life. And of course, in your Oh my God. Your life is over. I call it the last, another one, like Jack, Jack, Jack Love this awake gullets jacket and then if you think that you are. Now must have clients divorced who are stuck. They’ll never be another one or in a breakup. They can’t imagine there’s ever going to be another vehicle that takes them to that place. And if they think that, guess what, never gone there.

Dr. Tari: Will happen. You know, it’s funny. I always tell this story. I, you know, this was like 15 or so years ago, I was in a relationship that was ending, and I was walking with one of my really wise friends, Gail, who’s my mom’s age. And she, just so like, concise and wise. And we were walking, and I was just so sad, and what if this relationship ends? And she just looked at me, and she said, well if it’s not him, it’ll be someone else. It just blew my mind. And the thing is, there’s always somebody else, right?

Susan: Well, you know what, what’s interesting about that. We hear that all the time. It’s like when somebody dies, they go, Oh, time will heal, you know, but you actually heard it. That’s what’s beautiful. Your mind was ready, you know, casual welcome with an older person who just says it off the cuff and that that seed took root that’s. What’s exciting to me? Why then, why that moment? That was the trigger. So I think on a deeper level, Our soul knows the truth inside. I believe I have this whole concept of our; I call it our ER, our internal computer, and our perennial accounting system. Right. We have the most fantastic accountant inside, measuring the pluses and minuses of every relationship and transaction, and our internal computer truly understands all this data, and it’s processing it all the time. And when, sometimes we allow that space. To be teachable. That moment comes, and we hear it.

Dr. Tari: Say a little bit more about that. How does that happen?

Susan: You know, that’s one of those magical things. It’s hard to break down a fragment of its neck, right?

Dr. Tari: Right.

Susan: All I know is that if we stay locked in a thought that is painful, there is no way that the light can shine in and ever change the way our world looks. So I don’t know where, well, let me ask you this, as you lived it, what was it like for you in that moment? What happened to you? That was magical that you unlocked? Do you remember?

Dr. Tari: Yeah, I think just, you know, a new level of awareness. I hope I saw it through a different lens, right? The fear went away, or the fear got less.

Susan: Somehow, the assuredness of her voice, perhaps augmented by her wisdom and years, made you believe it for a second. And it makes sense. And you got on board, and the click you were released, right?

Dr. Tari: Yeah,

Susan: Maybe I’m guessing.

Dr. Tari: No, it’s so true because I definitely have worked with clients who just aren’t ready. Right. Like I say, the same things to them that I say to other clients, and they’re just not, it doesn’t get in that hope. You know, I always say like, I want to turn doubt into hope and hope into certainty. But what you yearn for is waiting for you. It already exists, but you have to it’s; it’s moving away from the fear to hope into certainty. And I think it just sometimes for ready for that, and sometimes we’re not,

Susan: I know. And this is very intricate; you realize how fine detail we’re talking about the breadth of a second and how you change this. So the way I describe it, as I was blessed with a mother that could not understand me. IPad to speak a language to her, where I had to find a way to take very complex ideas and make them very simple so that she could understand them. Not that she wasn’t, she wasn’t stupid. She just didn’t think I was, like, so far out of the box. She didn’t know what she wanted, me in junior league, and she didn’t understand why I wouldn’t come out at a cotillion. I didn’t want any of that stuff, right? And so when I, I know when I work, I try and make very concrete ideas and one is like, you’ve got a camera on a standard is locked. That’s the angle, right. You’re shooting. So I asked people to mentally go with me and say, I want you to do something the way you see this. I want you to pick up that camera on his tripod, and I just want you to move it a little bit over here to the side. So you have this view

Dr. Tari: Hmm.

Susan: Cause that’s what we’re doing in our mind. Right. We’re shifting the camera angle. And then we see life from a whole different perspective. So I realized that compared to a therapist, I must talk in very basic language, but I try to do that so that I think, I think it helps people because we’re talking about things you can’t touch you to touch your mind and touch your feelings.

Dr. Tari: Right. And the only proof is really lived experience. Right?

Susan: Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Tari: You got to try it, see what happens and see how your life opens up. And it’s funny because yeah, I’m a psychologist, but I mean, my lens is mostly spirituality at this point. So we actually speak the same language.

Susan: Interesting. Cause I don’t always go here with people and I don’t know why I went here with you, but it’s funny. So my, I must, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, you have to tailor it for your audience. I’ve gotten into, I’ve gotten into counseling sessions that have been now, remember I’m not a therapist. I got into counseling sessions that were so deep, and I’m like, Oh my gosh, this woman lost her daughter the one day she took a date. The daughter overdoses the one day she let herself have joy. I mean, like that’s the thing it took me about, we did a big session, like when these big four or five hour sessions. And I thought I can’t spend that. Cause I wouldn’t buy it and I’m thinking, what can I do? I had to dive into a level. So spiritual. I was like, I was almost losing myself, but it worked.

Dr. Tari: Yeah.

Susan: I don’t know how I just had to go on a whole nother level. Oh, it was, you know, because sometimes the actual thing that’s happening in real life is very painful and very difficult.

Dr. Tari: Yeah, no, I love that we’re talking on this level because I think this is a language, and the lens that a lot of people who are dating and in relationships don’t even know exists, right? They feel like they’re alone. They’re trying to control an outcome. They’re living in fear. They don’t believe something else exists because they haven’t experienced it yet. And it’s like, this universe is so abundantly infinite. You can have anything you want.

Susan: You know, I have compassion for people that cannot see it because they have no reference point. I had a girl, and I write, I write about this and, allowing magnificence. I had this girl who was kind of like a combination colleague friend type, and She had never known what love was. She never saw it in her family. The only thing that felt like love, the closest thing she could get to, was, that when she was sick, her, her, her parents were attentive. Can I tell you the illness this woman has had in her life?

Dr. Tari: Wow.

Susan: So to unpack that is pretty incredible.

Dr. Tari: She kept recreating that, that pattern in order to feel loved; that’s the only way she knew how to

Susan: I know because, and that’s a daunting task. How do you explain this to somebody? Don’t worry, you can have this, but they’ve got no idea what that looks like. So then we have to take scraps of what they have seen and kind of put it together until they can accept that. Then we move on to another level of building a slightly different prototype, you know?

Dr. Tari: Wow. So. Gosh, I feel like we could just dive in and talk for hours. I want to make sure we get to some of these things that I know you speak and write about. So you talk about this idea that when you know someone’s no good for you, but you keep going back and this trap of attraction and chemistry. So talk about that a little bit. Cause I think we’ve all been there.

Susan: Yeah, the attraction and the chemistry. There’s just, again, I think it’s the dream that pulls us back here. Here’s the thing, when we had, normally it was good at some point, even if it’s a player and it was the first time that we got together, and they just were shining the spotlight on us, and the lovemaking went four hours, and we’re like, Oh my God, I want that again. That’s it. You’re never going to get that twice with a player. That’s like the best is in the beginning, and it just Peter’s down from that point on. But I think we keep trying to recreate that first honeymoon phase, that first explosive bit of energy and focus. And we can’t understand as humans why, if it was there once, we can’t replicate it. So we start to double down, we start to try harder. We start to try and please them. We look for ways to be seductive because we can feel that it’s not there. And, and that’s the hook. That’s where we lose ourselves.

Dr. Tari: And why doesn’t that work?

Susan: Because the person that we’re with didn’t have the longevity to do it. So we think there’s something wrong with us. They loved me once they paid attention, once they were attracted, once they desired me once, what am I doing wrong? And I think oftentimes when we really look at it, the partner, they didn’t have zero sustainability. They’re inconsistent. You know, they played with a toy for a minute and put it away. For whatever reason, it scared them. They didn’t want it. They had five other toys. I don’t know. It doesn’t matter, but that’s, sometimes we have to recognize that this unique situation we’re in, I call it the honeymoon period. And I really validate the honeymoon period, breakups. Nobody. Give them any credence. And I think the most difficult breakup is in the very arc of that first high when they bail, or they start to do the slow fade, because all you’ve seen as the best of them, all they’ve given you is their total attention. You haven’t; it didn’t get real enough so that you realize, Oh God, they’ve got gnarly looking toenails, or I didn’t know, they’re depressed. Yeah. You know what? They look so happy or, you know, don’t they shower on the weekends. You don’t know this stuff about them yet. So the fantasy is at its height, and then it’s ripped away from you. So that’s why it’s so hard to get through that part of a breakup. And you’ll keep going back to try to recreate. It’s like the first heroin high. From what I hear, I don’t personally have experience, but heroin addicts tell me the first high its godmother loves everything you’ve ever wanted. You’re back in the womb. They keep looking for that high again, and we need to understand, and long-term relationships need to understand; I think a lot of millennials need to understand, well, you get in the beginning, it’s not going to be a, that’s not the whole ride. That’s the bait. To get you into the relationship so you can evolve and grow and love and learn about yourself in partnership and balance, get boundaries, learn to speak up, do all these things. That’s the bait to get you in; that isn’t the reality of what the relationship should be like. So a lot of people bail after the high of the beginning because they’re like, Oh, this is work. I don’t want to do this. Let me just start all over again.

Dr. Tari: Right. So how do we choose partners that have that longevity?

Susan: Yeah, it’s a crapshoot. You are not going to know if I had that. So many people like Susan, I want the definitive answer to avoid red flags. I’m so tired of saying work on yourself, but you will get smarter. The more you date, you will get sharper on what works for you and what doesn’t and all this dating business that you’re doing and all these hard things like why am I suffering? Believe it or not. It’s showing you what you want, what you don’t want. And when you see it, it is so clear, and you get to the point of your clarity, and then you manifest somebody with their clarity and, just use every single drop of what you get, and you will be fine.

Dr. Tari: Yeah, I think you’re right. You could date forever and not gain any insight or self-awareness if you’re not looking at yourself if you’re not willing to take in that information and use it right.

Susan: After every relationship long before I was in this business, I used to make a scrapbook and write it down. I do a comparison, like what I liked, what I didn’t like. And then I kind of look at that for what I wanted to create next, and I’d go into each new relationship trying to correct something I did in the last. And it was oftentimes an overcorrection. So in one relationship, one guy was constantly problematic and causing me issues. Right. And I was; I went into the parent role, and he went into the naughty child role, and that was our dynamic. I could not break out of it. He also was suffering from mental illness. It was coming out in the house when we were living together. And I didn’t know, so neither of us were prepared for these mood things he was going through. And so the next partner, I said, I am only going to pay attention to my side of the street. I’m not going to reprimand. So I didn’t actually clarify certain boundaries that I should have. I saw him doing all sorts of power, tripping with me, and playing games to be in control. And I remember watching that and then, at the very end of the relationship, because the resentment built up so badly, and I finally said, don’t think I didn’t see that. I just made a commitment not to call you out because I had to do that for five years straight with this other.

Dr. Tari: Yeah, wow, and I love that. It’s not about, okay, next time. I’m going to find this person next time. I need to find a person with this. It’s about what am I going to do differently next time?

Susan: It’s actually both. It is both. It is the amended list. It’s everything I like. I keep that in my recipe; everything I don’t, like I, asked for, it’s the equivalent opposite. So if I had a man that was inattentive and I never felt like I was the center of his life, the next guy, I feel like I’m the center of his life. I’m included in everything. So you re-imagined your formula and go back out and hit the road and see what you can manifest.

Dr. Tari: Right, but you don’t leave yourself out of the

Susan: No. Well, so do your own adjustment, or your, then the same thing?

Dr. Tari: Right.

Susan: Where could I have been better? What did that bring out of me? What do I need? Oh, I need to speak up, Oh, I’m afraid to speak up. Well, that’s going to be a problem. How am I going to establish boundaries? You know,

Dr. Tari: Right, right. One other thing you talked about, actually, there’s two other things I want to talk about. The first one is, you talked about, if you find yourself in this, maybe box, With somebody. Could you talk about that?

Susan: Maybe the box is what I call it. They’ve got you on hold, you, you’re in it. You are seeing them. You have some kind of thing going on, situations, a friend with benefits, whatever, but you’re not in first place. You’re not a priority. You’re not number one. And you know it, you absolutely know it, but you live on the hope that one day, one day, they’re going to look at you differently than if you just stay long enough that Oh, of course, they’ll see how wonderful you are and it just doesn’t happen. And that’s, that’s what I worry about when people get stuck in that.

Dr. Tari: How do you know it’s not going to happen? This is the question I’m asking for all women who are in this situation. How do you know it’s not going to happen?

Susan: I put a timeframe on it. I’m all about clarifying in the beginning. I’m not about going on a date and not having goals. I mean, I think you should be dating intentionally and let your partner know, look at it, I’m looking for this, this and this. And then you give them a timeframe. If it’s been a couple of months and you’re still a Tuesday date, you might say, you know, this isn’t working for me. I’d really like to feel like I’m closer to you. And the way I language it is I know, myself I’m going to lose interest. I lost an attraction. So I’m asking you to help me. If you, if you liked this, you want to continue. Give me some, give me a reason to stay here, but this kind of spiraling, me on the weekends or like every other weekend. And you’re busy not going to work. Just let me, I hate asking the man. Okay, where are we going? Are you, put me, do you love me? I’ve got a theory. If you have to ask them, if they love you, you know, they don’t.

Dr. Tari: Wow! mic drop. I love this. It’s just being in your power. This isn’t going to work for me. This is what I need either. You know, you can meet me there or not. And either way is okay.

Susan: And I would say to them, look, I’d prefer. If you love me, I’ve also had the, don’t edit me. Oh God, I’ve got so many conversations pre, during, ending. I’ve got all the stories. So you know, and I said to him, I said, look at my goal is to love you for me. I don’t want to be in a relationship. I can’t be having sex when I don’t have an attraction to. And if this does become sexual, I’m going to have feelings for you. I need you to know that now do not edit me for your discomfort. Do not, has nothing to do with you. I would love it. If they’re reciprocated. Not your issue. If I choose to love you, it’s for my benefit because I’m going to be happier that way. So I’m not going to slash your tires. I will not, you know, follow you across Europe to your new job. I will not have any of that. I know the game, but I want to feel so please don’t edit me.

Dr. Tari: Wow.

Susan: Thought it was beautiful.

Dr. Tari: Yeah, it is beautiful.

Susan: I’m saying, you know, if you’re afraid of your emotions, that’s your problem. But I hate having, you know, so many of these people, they want to edit your emotions because they can’t feel, and they’re afraid to feel. They don’t want to feel you denying me the experience of why I want to be here, for heaven’s sake. If I wanted to play safe, I’d stay at home.

Dr. Tari: Right. Oh, I love that so powerful. So let’s end on this note of positive mindset and dating because I know you’ve you talk about that. So, and I wish this is a gift I could hand everybody who’s dating and relationships, but what would you tell people about the essentialness of having a positive mindset?

Susan: Well, no, very clearly what you want. And then allow the universe to assist you. Don’t think you’re out here on your own. Sometimes you have to have a catfight with the universe and go. I told you I want this. You’re not listening to me. I have catfights all the time, and they deliver it with a sense of humor that with a sense of humor once. But you know, if you don’t think it is possible, I promise you it will never happen. So we need to find a way to seduce your mind into believing it’s possible. So whatever your. The thing is that it can’t happen. I’m scared. It’s not going to occur. I’d ask you to do your research by looking for where it does exist in other people like people who they go to; there’s no love, no love is possible. I’m of a certain age. I’m going to go, go, go to the store, go to a restaurant and look at people that are of your age that are happy together. You may never want to date that person. I get it, but it does exist. So we have to create. An environment where that possibility exists. That’s a little bit of our gymnastics mentally. And then we have to have hope. You have to have hope that there is somebody for you, and, and that you’re doing on your end. Everything you can to be prepared, to be the best partner for them. And trust it. When you see each other, you will recognize each other.

Dr. Tari: Wow. Oh my God. I have goosebumps. I love that. We’re ending on this note because I really, I really believe, you know, what we yearn for, what we feel pulled toward is meant for us. And we’re meant to have it. We just have to get out of our own way and believe it’s possible. Susan, thank you so much for this conversation. I want to have you back. I think we have many more conversations in us.

Susan: Me too. I can’t wait to work with you on Clubhouse and, and I’m, I’m going to learn zoom. I’m going to be a big girl and learn how to do my own interviews. I’m just technologically frightened, so,

Dr. Tari: That’s okay. So if people want to know more about you, if they want to subscribe to your YouTube channel, where can they find you?

Susan: I’m susanwinter.net, but I’m really lucky if you just put Susan Winter in the search engine; I should come up number one, or at least on the first page, so susanwinter.net is my site. Come join me if you’re on Clubhouse, come join. The doctor and myself, if you are on Instagram, I’m Susan E Winter there and look at my YouTube station cause they’re like 500 plus videos, and I have a lot.

Dr. Tari: And they are amazing.

Susan: Thank you. Thank you. And I have a live show every Thursday at 2:00 PM. Eastern.

Dr. Tari: At where?

Susan: On YouTube,

Dr. Tari: Amazing. Thank you so much, Susan.

Susan: Thank you, doctor. You’re lovely.

Dr. Tari: You are lovely. I, so appreciate you.

Susan: Thank you.

Dr. Tari: Thanks for tuning into Dear Dater. This is Dr. Tari, reminding you that if you want love, that’s meant for you.